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Barrier Busting
The Barrier Busting podcast offers insights, strategies, and inspiring stories that explore practical tips and powerful tools for unlocking our full potential.
Barrier Busting
From Teaching to Real Estate: Embracing Career Change and Personal Growth
Want a new beginning? Curious about how to do it? Join us as we explore the awe-inspiring journey of Norma Caiazza, who transformed her decades-long career in teaching and theater direction into a thriving new path as a top realtor. Norma's story is one of courage, creativity, and reinvention, and her journey from Florida to Rhode Island, with a detour through Michigan for opera, is filled with valuable lessons on embracing change and pursuing what truly matters.
Drawing from her rich experiences, Norma sheds light on the challenges and triumphs of transitioning from a familiar role into the unknown waters of real estate. Hear how her background in music and theater has been instrumental in her success, enabling her to communicate effectively and connect with clients in meaningful ways. The episode touches on Norma's strategic moves, personal sacrifices, and the pivotal moments that fueled her passion for real estate, reminding us that it's never too late to pursue our dreams.
Listen in as we discuss the broader themes of career transformation and personal growth, highlighting how age and experience can open doors to unexpected opportunities. Norma shares practical advice on self-motivation, the intricacies of real estate, and the importance of adapting to new technologies. If you're contemplating a career shift or simply seeking inspiration to follow your passion, Norma's story is a testament to the potential for reinvention and the fulfillment that comes from aligning one's career with personal values and interests. Don't forget to connect with us and share your thoughts at matt@mattbrookscoaching.com.
Are you feeling stuck? Is something holding you back? Are there obstacles in your way? Well, let's smash through those obstacles so that you can live your best life. Hi, I'm Matt Brooks, founder of Matt Brooks Coaching, and I'm fascinated with how people overcome barriers and achieve success. Join me for insights, strategies and inspiring stories as we explore practical tips and powerful tools to unlock your full potential.
Speaker 1:This is the Barrier Busting Podcast. Well, okay, we're back. Hi, I'm Matt Brooks. Welcome back to the Barrier Busting Podcast.
Speaker 1:I am excited to continue this series on pivoting, where I'm getting the great opportunity to talk to some really interesting people who have done pivots in their life and find out from them how they approached it, how they came to that decision and the challenges they've had while doing it. My guest today has what I would call more of a traditional kind of pivot for those people that pivot, but it is still nonetheless a pivot and it has a lot of challenges to it and you have to figure out if you want to even take the leap, and it takes a lot of courage. And she also had a few minor pivots earlier on in life, so we're going to talk about all that. My guest today is Norma Kayata, who has recently pivoted from public school teacher to realtor. Norma spent 30 years as a public school music teacher and theater director, who, during the last five years of her tenure as a teacher, also began her life as a real estate agent.
Speaker 1:Norma's success is, in part, the result of finely honed creativity, communication and education skills, which she utilizes every day to guide her clients through the process of buying and selling homes, and her work has resulted in multi-millions of dollars in sales, earning her recognition as part of the Caldwell Banker Diamond Club and consistently ranking the top 10 realtors in her East Greenwich, Rhode Island office. As a certified, accredited buyer's representative, senior real estate specialist and at-home with diversity professional, Norma is committed to serving a wide range of clients with both expertise and care. Norma holds a bachelor's degree in music education from Vanderkoek College of Music in Chicago, a master's of music education from North Florida State University, a master's in performance as an opera singer which is pretty interesting from the University of Michigan and is just a few credits shy of her doctorate of musical arts, also from the prestigious University of Michigan School of Music, Theater and Dance. Wow, that's a lot, Norm. It's great to have you here. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Great to be here, thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, it's really interesting to me that you've had some interesting pivots here, and I want to start with. You know, going from teaching to real estate isn't exactly, as I said, like an uncommon pivot, but first. First you went from teaching in Florida and then moving to Michigan to teach, to opera singing and then back to teaching. Tell us a bit about that and, in particular, how you made your decisions to pivot.
Speaker 2:Of course. Well, I always wanted to be a music teacher, started out at the Florida School for the Blind and enjoyed the job a lot, but went back to school for a master's degree because it was, of course, paid for by my institution. So why not? And I started taking voice lessons and I really loved singing and was told I had a talent for it. So I decided I was going to go back to school to explore opera and continued my teaching in Michigan so that I could get in-state tuition, where I then went on and started my grad degree.
Speaker 1:If I'm right, can I jump in? If I'm right, that University of Michigan school is a top 10 school in the country? Like you, don't get into that. If you're, you know, just singing, you've got to be really good, right.
Speaker 2:I did a little something, something A little something, something Excellent. Yeah. So I mean I was encouraged. I was a vocal talent that was encouraged. So I definitely, you know, put a lot into it and decided I was going to go for it. It was probably my first big pivot Leave teaching. I quit my job in Florida without a job in Michigan, came to Michigan, found a job to work for a year because of course U of M is not cheap.
Speaker 1:Okay. So wait a minute, I want to stop right there. So you decided you wanted to go to Michigan to study opera and then, as part of a strategy to do that, move to Michigan to teach there, to get in-state tuition right. Correct, all right. See, this is what I'm talking about. You got to have a strategy, you got to have a plan, and that's a great plan because. I can just imagine how much money that saved you.
Speaker 2:Yes, it saved a great deal of money and that really was the advice from my then vocal teacher who was at the University of Michigan at the time. Leslie Gwynn said you know, you don't have to come here right away, we can study privately for a year while you get in state tuition. So it just kind of really worked out.
Speaker 1:That's very cool. So what happened to opera?
Speaker 2:So well, I definitely. I graduated with a degree and I ended up doing an audition tour in Europe. I was recently married, did an audition tour in Europe and I decided that I didn't want to be. After doing it for a bit, I decided I did not want to be a 70-year-old woman by myself in a hotel room. I decided what I really wanted to be is I wanted to be a 70 year old woman by myself in a hotel room, um. I decided what I really wanted to be is I wanted to be a mom, um, and I wanted to be a present mom, not traveling all the time.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's. It's funny you talk about this cause. I do know one opera person who told me once that his address is a PO box in Chicago. He's just lives in hotel rooms. He's never home. I don't think people realize the sacrifices that performers and professions like that make. They just don't have a normal life, right. And you have twins. You wanted to be a mom and you got two for one.
Speaker 2:I did I got? I got two for one, a boy and a girl. One stop shopping. Nice, that was a bit hard though no-transcript and my full time job took priority for me and singing kind of took a kind of a side gig job.
Speaker 1:Sure, okay, well, all right, let's. Let's now jump ahead 25 years, cause you're there in Rhode Island and you're teaching and you're doing the high school musicals, I understand Right, which is a that's a big, that's a big job right there. So you're doing all that for 25 years and you decide that you can see your retirement insight you know it's going to be five years from then and somehow you go, hey, real estate, let's do real estate, right.
Speaker 1:First of all, how did you decide real estate? I mean, how was it that you decided? After I retire, I still want to work, and what I want to do is work in real estate, deciding that.
Speaker 2:I started noticing that one of my favorite things to do, like when we'd take rides, when our kids would nap in the back seat and would be, you know, driving down all these country roads and would see open house signs and I would tell my husband, can you just pull over, Because I want to go in and take a look at this house? Oh, I'm sure he loved that and my in-laws and mother-in-law was going to need to come and live with us, so we were going to have to sell our house and get a new house and a friend referred a real estate agent to me and this real estate agent and I became friends and she goes. You know, if you're this interested in it, you should think about checking out. You know, getting certified, getting a license, and you know it planted the seed in my brain and I started thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I want to say to my clients listening right now that learn something from that. You never know. Someone might just pass you by and say a quick something, but if you're really in tune with it, it could really mean something for your life, like this did for you, right.
Speaker 2:Right. And it's not even something I did right away, because at the time our kids, you know, were getting ready to finish elementary school and go to high school, and so it's not like it was something that I was going to apply right away, but certainly my brain wrapped around it and thought about it. I mean, hgtv started coming on, I started watching those shows and then both of my kids, having twins, they were both out of high school at the same time. I'm by myself, you know, an empty. We're empty nesters and I'm teaching, and it's not that I had a whole lot of other time, but I was like maybe now I want to go back to singing. Maybe now I want to try something else. Maybe now I want to. I want to do something. And it wasn't necessarily a plan for after I leave teaching at first, but it was like what is it that Norma really enjoys doing and wants to do with her life? And I'm not going to sit here and cry because my kids are gone now.
Speaker 1:Right, ok.
Speaker 2:OK, so that's kind of how it started. And then during the summer I decided maybe I could take the licensing classes and see where where it lies.
Speaker 1:Well and that's because, ultimately, you did start to devise a strategy, though, right, you did go, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to hook into this, right so? But you're still working. So you just brought up taking classes. What's it like taking classes, you know, 20, 30 years after you finish college and you go back to taking classes? I mean, I've done it. I could answer this question, but I want to hear it from your perspective. I mean, what was it like learning the ropes, also in your off hours, because you had an exhausting job? I don't think people realize this. I have a friend who's a middle school choir teacher. She sees 450 people a week, 450 students a week. This is not 25 students in the classroom. This is, you know, in middle school. You put 50 of them in a room and it's just mass chaos, right? So she's exhausted when she comes home. You come home and you're taking classes and learning the ropes. What was that experience like?
Speaker 2:It absolutely was exhausting and it was challenging, and at an older age you question whether it's something you actually can do had spent time doing other things and was kind of thinking about other things I might want to do. I was kind of in shock at how, for granted, some of the people who were in the class with me were like, in other words, I don't know that they had the same kind of drive or ambition that I had. It was almost as if, yeah, this is what I'm going to do now, because this is what I'm supposed to do now, but not a given choice.
Speaker 1:You know, I went back to school in my retirement to get a master's degree in social work and I was planning to be a clinician, as most people I've told on this show, and I had the exact same experience. First of all, can I do this? I mean like, come on, it's been 30 years, can I really pull this off? And then I find myself in a really hard degree and I'm sorry to say, but I wiped the floor with these kids. I just did. And there was something about the fact that I was coming back to school, because now I've been to grad school twice, once in my 20s, once in my 50s and my grades, everything were a thousand fold better in my 50sies. Because, yes, you have that life experience now, which does pay off and it does add up to something. Those of you who think old people are old and should be discarded, um and, and it did bring me a different perspective in terms of how I went to school. I mean, I was all in. This was what I was going to do now.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly, and and not only are you all in, but you have like a thirst for it, a hunger for it that maybe you just didn't understand when you were younger or or took for grant. You definitely took for granted.
Speaker 1:Well, you hit on it a minute ago, I think. When we're younger, we're doing it because we think we should be doing it. When we're older, we're doing it because we've fully decided to commit, that we want to do this. There is and I'm not saying everybody young hasn't fully decided to commit, but it's more common at that age to be like okay, what should I do? I should do this, okay, I'll take classes for this and I'll get a degree in that, but it has. There's a different type of hunger when you're our age.
Speaker 2:Right Agreed and it's not in. I mean, I remember loving being in school when I was young. It's just when you go back with all these other experiences you realize all the mistakes that you made, even if you were successful.
Speaker 1:And you're better equipped. I think you're better, all right, so you're doing all this. It's a lot of work, but you've mentioned to me that COVID actually helped you out in this process. Right? How did COVID? I mean because it didn't help a lot of people. So how did COVID? We want to hear a COVID success story, so hit us with that.
Speaker 2:A COVID success story. Well, so sure. Our my teaching classes were all online and they all had to kind of be prerecorded so you could do it at your own time. It wasn't, it wasn't live. Most of our assignments were given and then you just go back and check on them. So there was a lot of free time, and so I took that time to do all kinds of market analysis and all kinds of extra classes. That's why I have all those initials after my name, because I was able to take additional classes and everything was offered online. So so I was able to just kind of dive in. I was able to take the chances of making phone calls that I wouldn't normally be able to do and just use the time Cool.
Speaker 1:Cool, All right. Well, all right. Now I got to ask you real quick. You, I've been doing a couple of episodes on pivoting and I classified three reasons for people to pivot I want to, I need to and I have to and I see you hovering between I want to and I need to. Right, and can you talk to us about why you wanted to and why you needed to?
Speaker 2:Sure, I wanted to because of course, I was interested in the subject and because I feel strongly that teachers should be retiring and if they started young, in their 50s, and I was getting to the point where I love? I love my students, I love teaching, but I could see the value in somebody new coming in and taking over. A lot of things were frustrating me about the way education was changing and evolving, and it was changing and evolving in a way. I wasn't necessarily willing to go, and you're not the first person to say this to me, by the way. Education was changing and evolving and it was changing and evolving in a way. I wasn't necessarily willing to go.
Speaker 1:And you're not the first person to say this to me, by the way including on this podcast series. Someone else who pivoted from teaching.
Speaker 2:From any of your teacher clients that you work with. I'm sure all of us have said the same thing. You know, if you started teaching in the 80s as I did, it's just a whole different ballgame and it's just not something I was wanting to do for a whole lot longer. Now that I don't feel like I was serving them the students as well as's pension is not uh, it's not necessarily going to fulfill um the kind of retirement.
Speaker 2:I want Right. So not only that, but I'm a pretty energetic person. I'm not the kind of person who is just going to sit here with my cats and knit and my tea Although I love doing that, don't get me wrong. I knew I had to do something else, so I may not throw myself into something that I've always just kind of loved.
Speaker 1:Well see, I like this because your need to, as far as I can distinguish, is not because you needed to, because you had to get out of the job, or not because you needed to, because you really needed money, even though that was part of it. Your need to is to fulfill yourself. This is something I'm working on with my clients. You know your need to was to recognize what you need to live a happy life and you need. You said you're an energetic person, you need to keep busy. You're not going to sit at home and crochet, right, and so I think that's really important for the listeners to hear.
Speaker 1:That need to can also be about self-fulfillment, not necessarily needing to fill your bank account or needing to leave a job because it's miserable. All right, you had a long and distinguished career and all of a sudden, you find yourself as a rookie again. Right, and I had a little experience with this, with some internships where I was like the rookie intern again and I was still 20 years older than everybody I was interning for and in your training and the learning whatever, there was some apprenticing, I'm sure that you had to do. So. Talk about the experience of, you know, finding yourself, after a distinguished career being a rookie again.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is a very difficult but a very exciting position to be in.
Speaker 1:Interesting Because you're a rookie.
Speaker 2:Because you're learning something new every day, and you're learning something new with a whole different wisdom, as we talked about before in classes. So with real estate, no one, you don't really have an apprenticeship. It's not like you have student teaching or you have clinical or anything like that. You literally OK, you've passed the test and now you can go out and figure out who your clients are and how you're going to sell somebody's house or how you're going to help a buyer, and that's it. Um, you have. So I I felt like I was, you know, somewhere out there, you know just kind of all by myself. But I had an amazing manager and then this realtor that kind of pushed me into the field to really pick the phone up and call constantly, and I was. I was able to. Just, I made mistakes. I was able to call up and say, ok, I screwed this up, what do I do?
Speaker 1:Well, that's one of the tenants I talked about, about pivoting, and my first episode on this was seek mentorship. Be humble enough to seek mentorship when you're pivoting in your fifties, you know, because as much as we've learned in our lives, we don't know everything and uh, it's, it's terrible to be out there guessing on your own right.
Speaker 2:Right and you don't want to. I mean, when you're talking about that, I there's very, there are very few fields, but that you could not mess somebody's life up, but you don't want to screw up somebody's home purchase, sure, home sale, you know. So it's just really important, regardless of your field, I think when you're doing something new, especially when you don't have those safeguards in place, is to have a couple people near you that you really trust, that are just a phone call, you know, or a door knock away where you can say, hey, listen, this happened, I need to know how to handle this situation. Or what would you do if, if, if you know you made this mistake?
Speaker 1:I can relate to this because in my clinical internship I worked in a private practice and I had patients and they basically just threw me in the pool, just go and. And I was like, wait a minute, what do I? My first client said to me I want to kill myself. That was the first thing out of her mouth. And I'm like whoa, hold time out. I, you know what do I do and and I I would say you know, there's a certain gravitas to this where I don't want to be guessing, I want to know what I'm doing and I want so I had to, like you, I had to seek that mentorship out. I really had to like be aggressive to find that. Well, this is a great place to take a quick break. We've got much more with Norma when we come back. But real quick, her website you can checkA, so it's normakiazzahomescom.
Speaker 3:Back with more with Norma in just a minute, feeling overwhelmed, struggling to find balance in your daily life. At Matt Brooks Coaching, we get it and we can help. With over 25 years of nonprofit executive experience and an MSW with a clinical focus, matt Brooks offers personalized coaching designed to help you rise above your challenges and live your best life. Whether you aim to advance your career, enhance your skills or simply find more clarity and peace. Career, enhance your skills or simply find more clarity and peace, matt is here to be your partner and ally. Visit mattbrookscoachingcom to book your free discovery session today. Take the first step towards a brighter tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're back, you know. I want to ask you. So now you're officially retired and you're full time doing this, and let's start right from when you retired and started full time doing this. What new skills did you suddenly discover you needed to learn, Because now you're in business essentially for yourself, even though you're working for a. I don't know what you call it. You don't call it a practice, you call it a brokerage.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're working for a brokerage, but really everybody that's working for brokerages in business for themselves, so you've got to now deal with all that, so what?
Speaker 2:took you out of your comfort zone. What really you know everything, everything, everything you know. I've been a teacher for years and you know from seven, 15 to eight, 30, I have concert choir and from everything was scheduled for me.
Speaker 1:Very structured very structured.
Speaker 2:I knew what I was doing. If you, if you told me normal, you asked me normal, what are you doing at 12 on a Wednesday, I could tell you what I was doing. Now there's no structure. The structure that there is, a structure I make for myself and I've never in my entire life because either I've been a student or a teacher for all but a very short portion of time when I was a mom to little ones, I've always had my schedule dictated to me. So now, all of a sudden, I'm dictating my own schedule. I'm figuring that out myself. Not only that, but when I have a class of students, I get a roster. Those are my students. No one has handed me a roster of houses to sell or buyers to find houses for. I have to go out and find those.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are under the misconception that when you sign on with a brokerage like Coldwell Banker, that they're going to hand you referrals and that you know if these people like you they'll hire you. Nobody gives you a referral. You know from the brokerage Maybe on a rare occasion, if you're in the office and somebody happens to walk in, will you get that. So you're literally making phone calls or paying a referral firm to give you referrals or, you know, trying to get to know people in the community and do reach out all on your own. And that is just like so far out of my initial comfort zone and certainly my skillset that I've had for years and years. So I'm learning how to schedule myself, I'm learning how to market myself, I'm learning how to do all of those things. It was a huge learning curve and which I'm still working on on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:Are you struggling at all with social media?
Speaker 2:You would struggle with social media. Um, and I and I understand that that is the key to success, but I, I gotta tell you that I'm very intimidated by it. Um, and every day I I I've I've had days where I were like I really need to do this, I can't do it, I'm going to do it tomorrow. I really need to do this, I can't do this, I'm going to do it tomorrow.
Speaker 1:I'm with you a hundred percent because I'm having the same problem. I mean, it wasn't that I wasn't on some social media for a while there, but you know, heck, I went through my first master's degree without a computer. We didn't have you know. So I mean, you know, and then I, you know, got on social media for a while and kind of got turned off, right, and so stepped away from it. And now, yes, to make the business that I'm running work, I have to be a regular presence on social media, which not only means I have to be on it, I have to create engaging posts. And you know it's like, and I, like you, I have a lot of skills. But that marketing thing, that selling myself thing, is just not, it doesn't come natural at all and I really have to work for it. So I feel your pain there.
Speaker 1:But also this interesting point you brought up of suddenly you have no rigid schedule to follow. You have to make your own schedule. Tell me it's. Tell me I'm wrong when I say it's pretty easy in that situation to sometimes sit in that chair drinking tea and crochet longer than you really should have. Right? It's hard sometimes to motivate yourself day in and day out. There is no other force motivating you, it's just you got to do it right.
Speaker 2:It absolutely is. And I tell you, the first month was like you know, I'd you know I'd have coffee and my coffee would turn into a couple of hours of coffee, a couple hours of yeah, I'll get to this, maybe I'll do that Kind of.
Speaker 1:I know nothing about this, just what. I'm saying I know nothing about what you're saying.
Speaker 2:So now I've started making? Um, I actually listened to one of your podcasts about making some small changes. Um, yeah, I actually listened to one of your podcasts about making some small changes.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe it was one of your very first ones and it inspired me to start making some habits, Because I think that it's very that was exceptionally wise advice that you gave. So now I have a habit my Roomba starts at 9 am and I find it exceptionally irritating. So at 9 am, when that Roomba goes off, that is my cue to go to the gym.
Speaker 1:That is exactly what I was talking about in my podcast. I wish I knew that example, though I mean she's talking about the second episode I published, where I talked about building good habits and developing cues. Oh my God, the Roomba. I wish I never thought of that Brilliant.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So now that gets me out of the house to the gym and then, once I'm done at the gym, I'm going to devote at least three hours to something real estate Okay, at least three, and then I can take a break and then I'll go back to it. So it has really helped me to force I've really had to almost force myself for a schedule. Now, with real estate sometimes you get calls to show houses at unusual times and there has to be some flux in it. But the standard schedule of every day, you know, is what I struggled with and I'm making inroads on a daily basis. But it is true that you really do have to kind of change it by habit, one at a time. It's not going to all happen at once.
Speaker 1:Remember what. I said in that episode 1% changes, little changes. We always fail at New Year's resolutions because we just aim too big, we aim too high and little changes, and then, once those become automatic, you move to the next one. Well, that's great. Oh my God, I am so excited Somebody listened to my show. That alone is amazing.
Speaker 2:There are several of us. We have coffee every morning. We talk about.
Speaker 1:Well, actually no, the show's starting to pick up steam, so I'm pretty happy about that. Thank all the listeners for doing that. How did you find, even though your career was in music and teaching and real estate is so different what kind of things from your long and professional career, what kind of experience has really paid off for you, that you have been able to, you know, transfer over to this new endeavor?
Speaker 2:I would say the biggest element that I've been able to transfer, you know, transfer over to this new endeavor. I would say the biggest element that I've been able to transfer. Well, there are two, but one of the largest is when you're an opera singer, you also have to act. And then in teaching, I taught drama and I find myself as a real estate agent, and some uncomfortable situations. I'm kind of. You know, I'm not that, I'm a quiet person, but I'm certainly not a confrontational person, or I've never. I guess I use my acting skills to allow me to negotiate Like I believe a negotiator should negotiate. Even though Norma isn't a negotiator, norma knows how to plug into the acting.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm not sincere, but I have to use that end.
Speaker 1:Sure, oh my God, I wish I thought of that, because I could do a little bit of that too. That's a brilliant approach, it's just. It's just reprogramming your brain to look at it from a different angle.
Speaker 2:Correct, so I I can take on the persona of a negotiator. It doesn't have to be Norma I mean, yes, norma's there, um, but I I use that. I use that a lot in real estate when I'm negotiating the best price for um for my buyer, or when I'm helping sell my seller's beautiful home. And I have to use those skills that I've learned Also as an educator, teaching people. People don't understand a lot of things about real estate.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can come at it from the educational standpoint of you. But those are the two skills that I really feel have fared me very well.
Speaker 1:That's interesting too. And the educational point of view, because a lot of people in a lot of professions that have to work with people who don't know their work aren't really good at explaining it Right. They throw out a lot of technical terms, like we, you know. I know that when I'm with doctors sometimes they'll use overly technical terms and I have no idea what they're saying and I'll say I'm sorry they didn't teach that that day that I was at the at the in college, you know I missed. I must've missed that day because I think it's a. I think it's really important for us as professionals to recognize that the people we work with didn't study like we did. So it's incumbent upon us to find a way to to make them comfortable learn what they need to learn without it being oppressive or making them feel small for not knowing the language Right, so I'm sure, yeah, that's a great thing.
Speaker 1:Ok, I want to finish up with one last thing, because we're almost out of time. You, for those that are listening right now, who are considering a pivot in their lives and there's all kinds. There's people who are considering a pivot because they have to, there's people that need to, there's people that want to, but a pivot is a pivot, regardless and, in my opinion, regardless of the reasons why you are going to pivot. It's a pivot and it takes a lot of elements that we've talked about. What advice can you give them? I've given them my advice, but I like to hear it from other people too who've lived this what advice can you share with people about you know, uh, making a decision to pivot or doing the pivot or I don't know. Tell us, tell us what you can share.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest issue is to get out of your own head and just do it. I think a lot of times you try to talk yourself well, what if? What if I don't find any clients? Or what if I don't like it there? Or what if this doesn't fit this particular need of mine? The fact is is you really don't know until you just dive in. You just have to go for it. If it's something you're interested in, there's something there. So I think a lot of times we talk ourselves out of trying things that we really want to try.
Speaker 2:You know, Norma, I got to say what the end is going to be.
Speaker 1:I got to say you could be a life coach. I've heard a lot of it today. You could really do a great job with that, but I think that is really that's. The best advice I've heard so far is get out of your own way, take the risk, just jump in the pool, why not? What's the worst that could happen? Right, and we do stop ourselves with lots of things in life and those things, to be fair, happen because of negative experiences we've had throughout our whole lives. A lot of things that are popped into our heads from our childhood and throughout our lives make us a little more reluctant and a little reticent in a lot of different situations and make us talk ourselves into staying away from things. You're just damn right. Take the plunge, just do it. Wow, what a great episode. I can't thank you enough for being here, norma. Thank you.
Speaker 2:It's been a thrill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, remember to visit her at wwwnormakayatahomescom. She's in Rhode Island. So if you're looking for a home in Rhode Island, she's your girl. She will do a great job for you. Everybody I've got next week, I think it is I've got a recruiter coming on and we're going to talk about what we need to know from a recruiter's perspective, about pivoting not only in our lives in general at any age, but also, in particular, if we're going to pivot after 50, which is a whole different thing. So thank you all for listening.
Speaker 1:If you've enjoyed today's episode, please hit the follow or subscribe button so you'll know when we drop new episodes. Also, I want to put this out to you If you're listening and you have an idea for a topic you'd like me to cover, I want to invite you to shoot me an email at matt at mattbrookscoachingcom. Matt, invite you to shoot me an email at matt at mattbrookscoachingcom. Matt at mattbrookscoachingcom you spell Matt with two Ts, by the way but send me your ideas. I'd love to hear from you and maybe we'll get some great ideas and I will do my best to do great shows for you on that. But in the meantime, thanks again to Norma Kayatsa. Thank you all for listening Be well and I'll catch you next time on the Barrier Busting Podcast. Thank you.
