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Barrier Busting
The Barrier Busting podcast offers insights, strategies, and inspiring stories that explore practical tips and powerful tools for unlocking our full potential.
Barrier Busting
From Educator to Recruiter, and Tips for Job Seeking
Unlock the secret to a successful career transition with Jamie Stevenson, a former high school teacher who has mastered the jump from education to talent acquisition. Discover how Jamie utilizes her teaching skills to thrive in the tech recruiting world, collaborating with hiring managers to fine-tune job descriptions and interview processes. We promise you'll gain valuable insights on differentiating essential skills from those that can be developed, helping you navigate the competitive job market with confidence.
Throughout our conversation, Jamie shares her personal journey, highlighting the pivotal role of family support and networking in her career shift. With a background in teaching mathematics and history, she emphasizes how educators bring unique strengths to other professions. Learn how she leveraged her connections and recognized her own strengths to align with her personal goals and aspirations, offering listeners a road map for their own career transformations.
As the job landscape evolves, Jamie provides essential tips on presenting yourself effectively in applications and interviews. From crafting impactful resumes to the significance of social media presence, she covers the nuances of modern job searching. We also tackle the challenges faced by Generation Z in the workplace, examining how they balance professionalism with the pursuit of passion-driven careers. Tune in for practical advice and insights that empower you to overcome obstacles and unlock your full potential in today's ever-changing job market.
Are you feeling stuck? Is something holding you back? Are there obstacles in your way? Well, let's smash through those obstacles so that you can live your best life.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm Matt Brooks, founder of Matt Brooks Coaching, and I'm fascinated with how people overcome barriers and achieve success. Join me for insights, strategies and inspiring stories as we explore practical tips and powerful tools to unlock your full potential. This is the Barrier Busting Podcast general throughout your career, pivoting over 50, which is really complicated. We've talked to several people about how they pivoted and were successful, but a lot of what we've been talking about has been theory. Today, we're going to get down to where the rubber meets the road. We are going to find out today how to land a gig, how to get the job, because today I have a job recruiter, or shall we say, talent acquisition specialist, on the show, and I'm really excited about this guest.
Speaker 1:My guest today is Jamie Stevenson. After spending 13 years as a high school social studies teacher, jamie pivoted into work as a job recruiter or, as I said, talent acquisition partner, who has spent the past six years recruiting across diverse industries. Jamie began her career, or her recruiting career, at a small agency in New Jersey specializing in technical roles and has since worked directly with tech startups in health tech, fintech and cybersecurity, where her role is to attract and retain top talent. Jamie holds a bachelor's degree in science and secondary education from the University of Vermont. Jamie, I am so grateful you're willing to sit with me on this show, and she's actually going to do two episodes, folks. So we've got her for two weeks to hear what we need to know if we're trying to get a gig and a job in this current climate. Jamie, a great pleasure to have you here. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'm so excited to be here well, I'm excited to have you because, uh, I I'm hoping you'll give us the answers. We need to find gigs, you know you'll you'll at least give us what we need to look out for and be ready for give me some tips, yeah, for sure, let's start with you're a recruiter, or as we say now.
Speaker 1:we've changed every title in the world to sound fancy, which is, which is cool. You're a talent acquisition specialist, and that's cool. I like that better than recruiter. But what the hell does that mean? Tell us what you do, explain the job to us, and especially the parts that are both in your job description and sort of above and beyond. We all have job descriptions, but there's parts of our jobs that go above and beyond that. So give us the rundown of what Jamie Stevenson does.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, you know, and I think the title talent acquisition partner is a better title than recruiter because, you know, typically people think of a recruiter as somebody that just finds the right candidate for a company right, or as a head hunter. But you know, my role encompasses a lot more than that, especially because most of my recruiting career, or talent acquisition career, ta career has been in tech startups. So you know leaner environments where you're doing more than just that traditional recruiting. Um, you know I, I work within an HR department. Um, and you know I not only do you know I do that, that traditional head hunting, where you know I'm looking for the right talent to bring into our organization. Um, you know, for the roles that are open, but I'm also partnering with many other people within the business, within the company.
Speaker 2:You know, when there is an open role, I meet with the hiring manager and the interview team and I help them build their interview process. I, you know, coach them on. You know what, what are some of these things that are must have skills and what are some things we can concede on, because I'm sure, as you know, a lot of hiring managers, when they write up a job description, which also coach them and tailor those job descriptions as well. But it's like a Christmas list, right. They're putting every detail in there. I want somebody that can do everything. A lot of times it's, you know, what we call a unicorn, right? So I really helped to understand what are the must-have skills that somebody you know they have to have. There's no doubt about it. What do I have to see on the resume? What does this person have to have experience with, and what are the nice-to-haves and what are the skills that we can coach? You know what are coachable skills that they may not have a ton of experience in, but if they have the foundation of those other skills, we can build that with them. So I really, yeah, so when I do get a requisition for an open role, I sit down with the business and really understand all of these details and then it's up to me to market that.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, take that job description. I post it out on our website on job boards. You know, indeed, linkedin, ata, builtin, wellfound. There's a lot of different job boards that are sort of integrated through our applicant tracking system, but LinkedIn and Indeed are some of the big ones that I think everybody's probably familiar with. So I publish those and then, you know, not only do I field the applicants, so people you know see those jobs, the candidates, and they apply to them.
Speaker 2:So I'm, you know, sifting through that and moving folks forward that I see are a fit or have the basics of what we need, and then I screen them and decide whether or not they do possess these skills and good community, you know, the soft skills and the hard skills and then potentially move them forward and with that I'm also going out and prospecting. I'm looking for, you know, talent that might be a little bit more passive, or even that's active and open to work. On LinkedIn, on Indeed, I focus mainly on technical recruiting, so sometimes I'll look at some technical sites like Dice or GitHub, but typically my go-to for prospecting is LinkedIn. I mean, it's the biggest network out there and the most robust.
Speaker 1:You had mentioned to me that you also work with the applicants. You kind of guide them through the whole process.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You're not just working for the company, you're working for the applicants as well, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a big part of the role is I'm not only an advocate for our business side, but I'm an advocate for the candidates that I usher through the process. And you know, in recruiting best practices, you know, especially nowadays. I did build out like a whole recruiting and interview process for our company and launch that. But the big key here is the candidate experience, because you know, in speaking to candidates, even if they're not a fit, they could be a user of your technology or, you know, a client of your company, so you always want to give them a good experience. You know and be my big thing is being transparent. I'm always transparent about you know, maybe, why we decided not to move forward, or whether or not you know they have the basics of what we're looking for, and transparent about what the hiring manager will screen them and I do coach them through. You know the process of what to expect, how to prepare and give them lots of details like that as well.
Speaker 1:So, to be clear, though you're not necessarily always looking for someone who has every box checked in the job description, you're trying to recognize potential right, absolutely. It is because I think a lot of people don't apply for jobs because they read those descriptions and they have some of it, but they don't have all of it, but they know they could do the job. You're saying you're encouraging them to apply. You're saying just throw your hat in the ring, because it's possible that we're looking not for the perfect fit on paper, but the perfect fit of a human being that has a certain range of skills that we can coach and grow right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let's let's step back in your life a little bit. First, let's get away from your. You weren't always a talent acquisition partner. First you were a teacher a public school teacher and high school teacher, by the way, social studies and then you pivoted in your life and because this has been a series on pivoting, I want to spend a little bit of time on what your process was. How did you first and you don't have to tell me every personal detail but how did you first decide that you know teaching wasn't quite right, you needed to make a change? And then tell us about your career as a teacher first, and then tell us about what kind of went through your mind in terms of I need to make a change. And then I have a few follow-up questions about how you made the change. But first tell us about your life as a teacher. Tell us the good, the bad, the ugly and why you decided to leave it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So I went to college specifically to study education. I actually first was going to major in mathematics because that was always my favorite and I was very successful throughout my high school career in math and science. So I kind of toyed around with that. And then, when I got to college, the math just got way over my head so and I had a history class that I was loving and I was like, oh, this, this is cool. And my professor really hooked me and I made that change, pivoted there into becoming a history. You know, concentration.
Speaker 1:Hear that, teachers. I was just talking to a former college teacher of mine yesterday who had a profound impact on me in ways she was not aware. You don't know the impact you have on your students out there. Teachers, Keep doing what you do. Keep believing in what you're doing, Even if you're not getting the kind of feedback you feel you should. There's always going to be somebody out there. You're going to reach right, Just like this, Absolutely so. So I got to give a little prop to the teachers out there.
Speaker 1:I think teachers are getting the shit kicked out of them these days. So little props to them. But anyways, go back to how you made sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean kind of exactly what you're saying. Like teachers, the job of teaching is not easy.
Speaker 1:Everybody thinks like, oh, you know, you get, you get out of school early and you know you can go home and take care of your family like a perfect job for a mother Right or a family person, unless you're my wife who's a teacher who goes and leaves the house at 730 in the morning, is never home before 530 at night ever and then often has things in the morning, is never home before five 30 at night ever, and then often has things in the evening to do. So you know, the two months she gets off is compensation for the hours, the extra hours she works throughout the year.
Speaker 2:That's how I look at it, right, so I'm sorry, I'm all pro teacher.
Speaker 1:I think, like I say, they're getting the crap kicked out of them and it's just not right so go ahead.
Speaker 2:Agreed. No, I definitely agree there, and I think that was a big reason why I was like teaching is not what I thought it was going to be. But yeah, I did go to college, you know, with the idea that I was going to be a teacher. I always thought I wanted. You know that was going to be my, my career growing up. And you know, when you declare a major in college, half the time you have no idea the ins and outs of it right like you're just kind of like especially at 18, especially at 18 or 19 you want to do?
Speaker 2:yeah, figure out what your career is going to be at 18 years old, where you know, like I don't even know. You know what, what my plans are for the next day?
Speaker 1:I don't know how to balance my checkbook at 18 years old, right exactly, yeah, exactly so, um, you know, went along with that.
Speaker 2:I, you know, you know I graduated with that degree. I I got a job at my former high school. So a little correction I actually was a parochial school teacher, not public, I know you mentioned public, so I was parochial school.
Speaker 1:So I taught at my old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my alma mater, immaculate Heart Academy. It was an all girls private school, catholic school nonetheless and so I ended up going back there. And you know, after going up to Vermont for college, I always said I'm never coming back to Jersey. And not only did I come back to Jersey, I went back to my high school, which was wild, but you know it was a great opportunity. I got a chance to teach. I first year off, was offered a coaching position, coaching volleyball, which was my sport in high school as well.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and came back and did my thing and I taught for, uh, 13, 12, 13 years. Um, and you know, there were years that were amazing, where I was like this is it, I love it. And years where I was like, oh, my God, I got to figure something else out. Um, and I think in any career, you've got, you know, days or stints of time where you kind of have those thoughts At least I think a lot of people do unless you've got the dream job. But you know, I got to a point where, like school, I could come home and be with my kids. I was coaching. I was having to work multiple jobs on the weekends and in the summer to supplement that income. Um, it just was too much. So I went ahead and, you know, started to see what else I could, I could get into. And it was always that big question like what, what can I do? And my husband at the time was in recruiting and he was, like you know, I think you would be really good at this. You're a good people person, you're really resourceful, like you're. You're really good with um, searching for things online and finding information which can apply to the recruiting field.
Speaker 2:So I went ahead and started when I was on maternity leave. Actually, I, you know, started to network a bit. You know, I I reached out to, or I actually started interviewing. I did get a job opportunity to work for a big recruitment firm, robert half, which my at the time husband was working at, and I was like it's a little too close to home.
Speaker 2:So I passed up that role, you know, started to talk to some other folks in smaller companies, cause I felt that was where I'd get more attention and more of um. You know, the the key foundation of what I would need more, you know, in a smaller environment. Um, and I actually ran into a high school friend of mine who was working for an agency right up the street from my house and we started chatting and she was like you know, we're actually looking to hire somebody. And, um, she's like you know we're actually looking to hire somebody and she's like you know, let me know if you're interested, like send me your resume. So she got me an intro to this small, a little boutique firm Like literally I could see it from my front door, the building and I went in for an interview and multiple interviews. Actually it was a pretty long process and they they ended up hiring me and I took the role.
Speaker 1:Did you have to before you did that? Did you have to do any training to make yourself marketable in that role, or were you able to just kind of slide out from teaching right into doing this?
Speaker 2:So I kind of slid out because they were looking for somebody entry level and, lucky enough, they saw that I had the you know, the hunger and the interest and also some of those applicable people skills that they could coach me. And that was what my manager at the time saw in me was that you know that drive.
Speaker 1:And I got to stop you right there for the people listening More than the skill this is what I've always been told, and I used to hire a lot of people and I used to think this way more than the necessary skills, you need the hunger. If you have that hunger, if you show that passion, you don't need all the necessary skills perfectly in place. Am I right? It's really the passion You're looking for, people who are going to give themselves to the position, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, definitely, and you know it did help that my friend who referred me was able to speak for me and kind of, you know, vouch that. You know I was in it for the right reasons and you know needed like I could go to her for questions and I would be comfortable doing that. So the networking part of things I think definitely helps as well when you're looking to make a pivot. I always say use your network. Even if it's not somebody, that's like a firsthand connection. You know it could be a friend of a friend. You know that's always super helpful, whether it's to get a, you know an in and a company or just to pick somebody's brain on what to do and how to get there acquisition partner when you were working with applicants.
Speaker 1:Is there stuff you experienced or did this? Just you know? Overnight you walk into a new job and you just learn it and away you go. I mean, was there any part of this process that informs you now?
Speaker 2:Um, I mean kind of. I think what you said before is like having that hunger and that drive and that motivation and also being self-aware that you know I have this 10 year or 10 plus year career, um, and I'm pretty, you know, educated and, uh, you know, confident in that career. But you know I might have to start over. Um, you know what I mean. I might have to start from that bottom and I may.
Speaker 2:You and I definitely was compensated pretty equally because I wasn't making much as a parochial school teacher. But I think that's something for folks to keep in mind is to be, in order to make a pivot, you might have to take a step or two or more back when it comes to the compensation part of things and also just seniority, the compensation part of things and also just seniority. It's not just going to be this lateral move from one you know one title to another or you know you might have to. I hate to say it like and I don't like to say prove yourself, but you're going to have to you got to earn your stripes.
Speaker 1:Exactly, there's just no getting around it. You got to earn your stripes and you do. You know it's just what it is and know in my pivot in my 50s. I went back to college and I had to do internships and of course I was, you know, like 20 years older than anybody I was interning for and that created some awkward moments and frankly, I'm not going to lie a few obnoxious moments, but I, you know, I just knew it going in. You got to suck this up and do it and I kept my. I kept a positive attitude and said don't worry about my age or whatever. I'm just here to do whatever you want me to do. There might have been a few car rides home from the gig at a time where I might have been in my car going God damn it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, but you have to just accept that that's reality. You do have to prove yourself and you got to earn your stripes, but this is a great place for us to take a quick break, because we're we're now transitioning into the information I know people want, which is how to get the job, and we're going to talk about that in just a minute.
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Speaker 1:Okay, we're back with Jamie Stevenson. We're going to now talk about shifting into an ever-changing job market, because what I've noticed in the last few years is it seems like the job market is changing almost as rapidly as technology. Every time I buy a new iPhone, six months later it's like they've come out with the next generation of brilliant technology, and that's happening across the board, and it's kind of like the job market is similar. Now, right, it's changing all the time, right? First of all, how do you deal with that? What's your advice to people to deal with that without pulling their hair out of their heads? And you know how can people best prepare for these changes? Or?
Speaker 2:actually even more simpler than that. How can we know what those changes are? So, just watching the news, obviously, you see what some of these breakthroughs are in, especially technology right, and that will sort of dictate what these new roles might focus on. But you know, just keeping up to date, like I said, linkedin is always my source and there's lots of content there that they're updating on. You know what are the hot new jobs, what are some of the? You know the job, you know where's the job market transitioning to and what are some companies hiring for and even looking at, like the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics, they have projections as well. So yeah, and I mean not even just in the tech sector, I mean there's some obvious ones where, like, the job market is really hot but may not have like that lucrative earnings of, like health care right and nursing, teaching, right. There's some of those basics that aren't tech focused that you know there is a high demand for and there, you know, is increasing demand for.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that LinkedIn's really a great source, though, to be able to keep up with these changes, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also what I've noticed on LinkedIn is there's a lot of articles of advice on LinkedIn, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, there are, especially from yeah, like a recruiting perspective, anything job related, I mean it is. There's a lot of content there and that's why, you know, that's kind of my go-to for what I do, because not only does it provide me actual you know prospects of candidates and whatnot, but also a lot of that content that's needed to keep up with you know best practices as well when it comes to hiring and then the job market in general, to those trends.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's talk about, then, how candidates present themselves All right with their resumes and other written materials, because this changes often. When I started my career many years ago, it was resumes should be no more than one page. If it's more than one page, they're going to throw it in the garbage. Now, resumes seem to be like short stories. They seem to be like multiple pages and have a lot of columns in them and talk about how people present themselves through their resumes and other written materials. How important, by the way, is their style of email comp? You know when they are emailing back and forth with you. Are you? You're? You know you're judging them on the basis of how they're writing too, am I right?
Speaker 2:And communication. Just, you know, you say, like the multiple page, you know, resume is acceptable these days and it is um, it certainly is. Like I no longer, you know, and I think even when I started recruiting I was open to longer than a page resume, but to a point, um, if somebody is, you know, rambling on like I'll get applicants that have five page long resumes, and it's just like, literally they're, they're writing down every single detail of everything.
Speaker 1:With a lot of hyperbole right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You can read rights. You can see right through that after a while.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm like okay, if this person can't succinctly tell me like the key things that they do in their daily data, you know in their day to day of their role, then like they're not going to be a succinct communicator and that's not going to work in, you know, in our company.
Speaker 1:I'm going to pause you right there because I want to make sure we really hammer that point. You and I were talking in our pre-interview that the key in communication now is and it always was, but it's really important now is to be succinct. And if you can't be succinct, get a point across. It's kind of like an elevator pitch. Right, an elevator pitch needs to be only two to three sentences, and some people make them seven, eight sentences. There's a reason it needs to be two to three sentences. It's can you get your message? I mean, if you could do an elevator pitch in one sentence that clearly gets your message across, you're really hitting you know, hitting high. So I just want to pause right there because I think people need to understand that succinct. You know it's not a podcast where you're just going to ramble. You've got to present yourself in a succinct and clearly. You know a nice shiny package, am I right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. Because you know a nice, shiny package, Am I right? Yeah, yeah for sure. Because you know you only have a limited amount of time in meetings, or you know you want to be able to be effective and impactful, because if you're rambling on, people are going to zone out and there's no impact there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I sound like the teacher from peanuts right.
Speaker 2:What's your?
Speaker 1:potential job applicants know about employers searching their social media accounts, because you know you're saying LinkedIn, but I'm sure there's other social media platforms that people should be using. Do employers do deep searches and social media accounts?
Speaker 2:So that's an interesting question because I remember like historically, even when social media came out, when I was like in college, there was always like, watch out what you post, yeah. But I think you know I typically do not look at social media unless there's a reason to. You know, I'll typically look at just the LinkedIn profile to make sure that they're presenting themselves in that way and matches up with their resume, because a lot of times people will embellish or they're you know, especially if folks are like we had an issue with people passing background checks because we're in a fully remote environment Um, it's crazy to scams that go on. But that's probably could be a whole other podcast or maybe two episodes, yeah definitely.
Speaker 1:I want that.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. But um, yeah, as far as checking social media, I personally don't do it as much, like I said, unless there's like a red flag that's raised, like I remember having a candidate who was kind of like he was a finalist for a role that we were recruiting for, but he had some like erratic behavior, like he had all the skills we were looking for, but there were a couple red flags. So we did kind of deep in and did like a search and didn't necessarily just look at the social media, kind of like, did a google search and saw what came up and tried to verify, you know.
Speaker 1:But um, so you didn't do that. I want to pause you. You didn't do that until the red flags appeared yes I want that. I want that to get across, because I think we're all paranoid that anything we ever said or did in our lives is going to be used against us in any endeavor we want. But you really weren't looking for that stuff. It was the person's behavior that triggered you to go looking right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I don't have time as a recruiter, like you know, I don't have time to do that. I don't have time to look at every candidate's social media. You know what I mean. Like you're lucky if I have time to get through the entire applicant pool. So it's not something that's a go-to of mine, only if there is like a red flag. I have had hiring managers only. I think there was one occasion where a hiring manager noticed somebody's Twitter post and was like what's this all about? I'm not sure I feel comfortable Some underground, I don't even remember what it was, but there was an alarm raised there on that. But that was only one instance. Sometimes the hiring managers when they're, you know, preparing to interview a candidate, we'll dig a little bit deeper and point that out. But for the most part, as from the recruiter's perspective, I do not go beyond LinkedIn?
Speaker 1:Excellent, well, that's great to know, because I heard that guy. What's the guy in Shark Tank, the bald guy? What's the guy in Shark Tank, the bald guy.
Speaker 2:I forget his name. Oh, Mr Wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that dude he was talking about something about how he does these deep searches now, where it's like $4,500 and they go into everything and they can, you know, like protesters can now be recognized through some kind of eye recognition and it'll come up on the deep searches and, and I'm like you know, he's freaking everybody in the world out.
Speaker 2:I'm not seeing you guys with the kind of time or money to be doing that, whatever, I was just going to say that most companies are not going to have the money to invest in those deep searches now having said this, people, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I'm not giving you all permission she's not giving you all permission to go all batshit on your social media accounts, because you can still shoot yourself in the foot and I personally have a theory that anything that happens before the age of 25 doesn't really count. Okay, so if you post something when you're 18, okay, we can overlook that. What are you not? What are you like now? But if you're over 25 and you're posting, you know, crazy stuff, you might want to be careful about that. Even though Jamie says she doesn't look for that, it could pop up. All right, let's move forward with. We talked a second ago, before the break, about passion and hunger being really important. What are the things that employers are looking for? Above all? What is it that they're really looking for? I mean, is it that crisp resume? Is it that you have every skill they need? You already said that's not the case, so what are they looking for?
Speaker 1:What do we need to know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it varies from hiring manager to hiring manager, to be perfectly honest with you, and from company to company. It really depends on the size of the company, the stage of the company and what their product is as well. And again, I work mostly in tech environments and I'm hiring technical candidates, so, especially those that are senior candidates, like senior principal level, they have to have that hard, tangible experience of being able to code or whatever that case may be frameworks, languages. But one thing I could speak to as far as my most recent company was a fintech and our software architect and director or SVP of engineering. We're really looking for folks, as we've been saying, that were curious, passionate, hungry, from the sense that you know.
Speaker 2:They started off the interview process after I would speak to the candidate and just verify the basics. The next step in the process was a preliminary technical interview where the hiring manager and another technical person were conducting the interview with the candidate. Interview was conversation and the second half was an actual coding exercise. But you know, I would always coach the candidate and say, listen, they're not, they don't care if you get to a solution on this coding problem. It's more about how you communicate. How do you talk through what you're doing, why you're doing it and also like, how do you approach a problem right? Do you just jump in or are you going to stop and be thoughtful and ask questions to clarify what the interviewer is looking?
Speaker 1:for before you jump into it. Questions are good, right. Questions show you're curious. Questions show that you don't think you know it all right, that's so important. So that's great.
Speaker 1:Listen, we're running long. I got one really important question to ask you now. Great Listen, we're running long. But I got one really important question to ask you now. Our next show. We're going to talk about specific pivoting techniques and what people need to know when they're pivoting, and we're going to talk a little bit about pivoting over 50, because that's something I did a full show on. But we're going to go to the other end of the spectrum in Gen Z.
Speaker 1:Now we're going to talk just briefly about Gen Z, because there has been a rash of articles lately in the news about Gen Z getting fired all over the place. Like six out of 10 Gen Z people who've been hired in the last year or two were fired within a few months of getting the jobs. What I've read is it's a lot to do with the fact that they're showing up late, they're dressing in pajamas, basically they're not acting professionally. They're actually telling their bosses things like no, I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that, and and sometimes their moms or dads call their boss to complain about. You know, um, things that are just so crazy to me coming up when I came up. But what? What do we need to tell Gen Z to so that they can become successful in the workforce and and?
Speaker 1:um you know. I mean, are you? I know you're not going to admit this, that you might be hesitant or not with Gen Z, but but what do they need to do, to you know, keep, maintain their jobs. And what do they need to do when they present themselves in an interview?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I definitely hear your concerns and it's funny because you know I remember this coming up and all the challenges with the millennials Right.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, it's not my concerns. I've been reading about this all over the news lately, but it was the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the same. When the millennial generation came into the workplace, there was all these challenges. So it's kind of like that you know that ever, that that, that concern that's always there. You know, with the younger generation it wasn't my generation.
Speaker 1:We got the gig and they're like you either do it our way or you're gone. You know, there wasn't any. There wasn't any. We're going to accommodate you because you feel like wearing pajamas to work today. No, no, no, no. That didn't happen in my generation, so it is foreign to me what's going on. So what do you think? How are we going to get through this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think that we're going to get through it. I mean we always do. And I think Gen Z eventually, I mean they're the first generation that it was. You know, when they were born, apple phones were out. You know the social media is just a part of their norm and it's totally affecting their way of being social outside and inside of the workplace. And top that with the pandemic right, all of these challenges that they've had to face and they really, when they first graduated college, they were having to work remotely from home. So they were kind of set up with a shitty start there, up with a shitty, you know, start there.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, I, I, if you're asking what my advice would be you know you do have to be polished. You know the workplace is the workplace. There are certain basic expectations that companies are going to hold and you know companies are evolving, their cultures are changing. Um, you know, as far as like mental health, I know that's a big thing with the Gen Zers, and you know, as far as like mental health, I know that's a big thing with the Gen Zers, and you know anxiety and this and that. So you know it's a two-way street where we do have to make some changes and, I think, accommodate. But at the same time they got to put on their big kid pants and show up.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, yeah, exactly. My father used to have a saying and he was a World War II vet, so you know, put it in perspective. But his saying was you don't have rights, you have responsibilities. And what he meant by that was with rights come responsibilities. You can't just you know. I'll give you an example, a funny one, with my son, who's young. He said to me about a year ago he said you know, dad, my friend gets an allowance for doing his chores. And I said well, isn't your friend lucky? And he looked at me shocked.
Speaker 1:And I said he said shouldn't I get something? I said you do. There's that roof over your head and that refrigerator and that PS5. No, he looked shocked and I said look, we all have to make an effort to contribute. We don't get compensated for everything. Whenever you need money, I float you what you need, but you're not going to just get paid for breathing, for being on this planet. And I said but when the day comes that the world decides to pay me a salary for just being here, I'll cut you in on 10%.
Speaker 1:You know, I said I mean we do have to live up to standards and if people are paying us for work, they get to decide what that work is. They get to decide what the culture of that environment is, and if you don't like the culture of it, you know there's the door right. I mean, I think there's an awful lot and I understand Gen Z has really interesting challenges, really tough challenges that my generation didn't have. Things like you said social media. You know 24-7 bullying on social media, covid.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of challenges but at the end of the day, when the rubber meets the road, being a professional is being a professional right. It's taking a shower before you go to work and looking, you know, clean and going to work and bringing your best attitude to it. And if you don't do that, you know throughout history what happens to people who don't do their jobs they get fired. It's the way it is. So I'm not going to take any more time on this, but I do appreciate you kind of standing up for them, because I think they're getting battered right now in the press.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a totally different world. I mean, our kids are watching these YouTube YouTubers making hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting in their basements. You know doing the things that our kids and they're like, oh, I want to do that. And it's like, oh, my gosh. Like you know, I think, gen Zers, they have this whole different world that they're living in and you know they want to do things that they're passionate about and you know that align with their interests. But yeah, it's definitely, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I like to tell my son, I like to say look, this idea of influencer is really fascinating to me because I want to be influenced by people who actually have life experience.
Speaker 2:frankly, you know, but that's for another show.
Speaker 1:All right, we got to run. We've run quite a bit long on this one, but the good news is Jamie's going to be back for another show and we're going to get. We're going to talk more specifically about what we need to know when we're making life pivots. So, jamie, thank you for being here. It's great to have you.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:And we will be back with her again. If you've liked this show, please hit the follow or subscribe button so we can you can get notified anytime we drop a new show Back with Jamie next week, so please join us for that. For now, thank you for listening. No-transcript.
