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Barrier Busting
The Barrier Busting podcast offers insights, strategies, and inspiring stories that explore practical tips and powerful tools for unlocking our full potential.
Barrier Busting
Unlocking New Opportunities in Your Professional Life
Unlock the secrets of a successful career transition with insights from Jamie Stevenson, who shifted her path from teaching high school social studies to becoming a talent acquisition partner. In this episode, we unpack the various types of career pivots—voluntary, necessary, and obligatory—and offer practical guidance on how to leverage your existing skills to excel in new roles. Jamie shares her story and expertise, illustrating how to tailor your resume and present your experience in a way that resonates with potential employers.
Facing the challenge of standing out in a new industry can be daunting, yet it's also an opportunity to bring fresh perspectives and transferable skills to the table. We discuss why you should consider applying for jobs even if you don't tick every box on the list of requirements. Think of job postings as a wish list rather than a checklist. Employers often value diverse experiences and soft skills that don't always fit neatly into a job description, and we’ll tell you how to make yourself an attractive candidate by showcasing these strengths.
For those over 50, tackling ageism in job applications can be a significant hurdle. We offer strategies to showcase your value and align with a company's mission and values. By emphasizing passion, curiosity, and a robust skill set while navigating the fear of making a career change, this episode aims to empower you to take control of your professional journey. Listen in as we explore networking, research, and taking action to make your dream career a reality, because the only limits are the ones you set for yourself.
Are you feeling stuck? Is something holding you back? Are there obstacles in your way? Well, let's smash through those obstacles so that you can live your best life. Hi, I'm Matt Brooks, founder of Matt Brooks Coaching, and I'm fascinated with how people overcome barriers and achieve success. Join me for insights, strategies and inspiring stories as we explore practical tips and powerful tools to unlock your full potential.
Speaker 1:This is the Barrier Busting Podcast. All right, we are back at the Barrier Busting Podcast. I'm Matt Brooks and we're happy to have you with us. Thanks for listening. We started last week with a talent acquisition partner, or what we used to call a job recruiter, jamie Stevenson, and she is back with us for part two of our discussion. We have been talking about pivoting for the last several weeks, and today we're going to talk about her role and her advice more specifically geared towards pivoting, and for those of us who are out there doing a pivot or thinking about pivots, just to remind you, jamie Stevenson was a high school social studies teacher for 13 years and then she pivoted herself into work as a talent acquisition partner, has spent six years recruiting across diverse industries. She began her career at a small agency in New Jersey specializing in technical roles and has since worked directly with tech startups in health tech, fintech and cybersecurity, where her role is to attract and retain top talent. Jamie, great to see you again. Thanks for joining me for yet another episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1:Let's just get right into pivoting now, because I've been talking about job pivoting, and you know pivoting is both exciting and terrifying. Right? It's a really tricky thing, and, just so you know, I've identified three types of pivots in my series. There's the I want to, which is people that just would like a change. There's the I need to, which is people who could stay in their jobs but they're like they just can't take it anymore. They got to do something else.
Speaker 1:And then there's the I have to, people in particular, who've been forced out of their jobs or laid off and they need to make a pivot. There's a process, though, for those who want to and need to in particular, that they have to go through to figure out what to do, how to do it. So let's talk about this process and get some advice from you. When you decide you're going to pivot, all right, you're, obviously, if you're not going to go specifically into the same job with another company, but you're going to change slightly what advice do you have for identifying and communicating transferable skills when moving into a new industry or role?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you obviously need to figure out, like, what type of a role, like what is the pivot Is it? Is it a career, like a title change, or is it an industry change? Like you know, you kind of have to organize yourself as far as, like, what type of a pivot is this? Um, and then you know in your job search, like I always tell you know, friends, candidates, um, when I was, especially when I was working at agency, um, you know I was servicing a lot of different clients, working on a lot of different kinds of roles. But I would say you want to look at the job description and the company and their core values, and always you tweak your resume for each role that you're applying for to really showcase and highlight the skills they're looking for and the skills that you possess.
Speaker 1:And get somebody to bounce ideas off with, because sometimes you might not see a skill in a broader sense, but someone might go oh wait a minute, you did this. It works in this way, you know, am I right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I my uh good coworker of mine, uh a good friend and coworker of mine, uh, from my previous role. Um, I'm in actually in a transition, I'm starting a new role. On Monday she was at the company I was just at as well, and she started a couple weeks back, but we were both on the job search together and really helped each other recognize like wow, yeah, like I could put this in my resume, like I forgot, yeah, I did that, and the way that she worded it too was just so much more, you know, captivating than I had in my head or than you know.
Speaker 1:So it's definitely good to have a sounding board and you know your skills that are specific to one job can apply to many other jobs in a broader sense, and you just need to widen your vision with them a little bit and think through. And I'm not talking about bullshitting, I'm talking about just looking at those skills and seeing how they really have you prepared for much more than just the specifics of the gig you were in. Okay, here's a good one. I think we all want to know what might scare an employer off from hiring someone who's pivoting from another industry or role.
Speaker 2:What might scare them off? Lack of experience is the obvious one. Um, maybe needing too much coaching, and you know the manager may not have the time or the bandwidth or, you know, motivation to do that. Um, I do see that especially in lean environments. I've been in, like I said, tech startups. It's a very lean environment so they like people to come in and, as they say, hit the ground running. You know that don't require a lot of ramp up and training, but usually that's somebody that's at that mid senior plus level. Obviously, if you're applying to something that's entry level, it should be implied and maybe it's not always, I know I've seen lots of jokes and memes about this. Like, entry level means that there is going to be coaching and training available on the job and you know, if the hiring manager or the recruiter that you speak to you know says the opposite, then it's not an entry level job. You know it's not. It's not that that basic level, that level one.
Speaker 1:That's good to know. I didn't know that. Entry level, you know, just inherently means there'll be training that comes with that. So that's good to know, I mean it makes sense. But what might? Now let's go the other side of this coin. What might turn an employer on for hiring someone from another industry or role? I mean, how can candidates stand out when recruiters to recruiters when they come from a different industry or role? I mean, how can candidates stand out when recruiters to recruiters when they come from a different industry or have a nonlinear career path.
Speaker 2:I would say, something that would stand out is and this is what I love too is diversity right. Diversity of experience, of mindset, and just a different frame of reference that you can bring to the table that may not already be there.
Speaker 1:So that'll pop out at you from the page. You'll see that from the resume or from their cover letter or whatever.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily, um, you know, just by knowing like, oh, this person is coming from a different industry or role, like you know. But but some of these soft skills apply, that's that's appealing. You know that could bring a different perspective. You know, you kind of assume that.
Speaker 1:Okay. Are there industries or roles that are more open to hiring pivoters than others?
Speaker 2:That's kind of a broad question. I think it really depends on the company and you know the company and you know what it is and the role itself that they're looking for. I'd say that there are certain jobs where, yeah, there is that ability to sort of apply, so like, for instance, recruiting, like you know, I think that that is an easy one. I don't say that sort of disqualifying myself here, but you know, I was able to transition from teaching to you know recruiting, because it's not like there's a super hard skill that you've got the people skills you can communicate and you're resourceful and you know, you know how to do a search and you can use some social media and whatnot. You know you can get trained up.
Speaker 1:Well, see, I like to ask a lot of stupid questions, because I find that stupid questions, the simple things that we think should be obvious, always have an answer. That'll have something in there that's not so obvious, and in this case, I think a lot of people are afraid to take a risk and go into something else, but that they should give it a shot. You know that there are transferable skills that companies are more willing to look at than we realize. I mean, yeah, if you're hiring someone for coding, then they got to know coding. But you know how important you just because you just mentioned it how important is formal education and certification when pivoting to a different career, and when does experience alone suffice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, I think that is sort of depends on the role and what, what they're looking for. But a lot of times from my own, you know, unless unless a hiring manager or company or hr requires that there's like a degree involved um, you know, I don't look at that, it's more about the experience to me. You know you gain. I personally feel like you gain more experience on a job than you do in the classroom because you're actually hands on doing it.
Speaker 1:I remember going into my MSW degree to study to become a therapist and a therapist I knew said you understand, you're not going to learn a thing about therapy in this degree. Right, and that's, that's the case. Yeah, so when? I guess what I'm getting at is when we say when we, when we see on a job posting, uh, degree in such and such preferred. When the word says preferred.
Speaker 2:I always say go for it. I always, you know, I say apply even if you're um, you know you don't meet every criteria. Yeah, it can't hurt because, again, keep in mind that that job posting is a Christmas list. They want, you know that is the perfect candidate, which doesn't exist. So I always say take the shot. Even if you have a couple of years less experience or you know you don't have that degree, go for it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's really great to know that what she said, that was in our last episode and saying it again here, that you know a job posting is a Christmas list, because I think some people get to. I know I have I've not applied for things I probably could have at least got an interview for in retrospect, just because I'm like I don't have some of the things on this, this list, but it's a christmas list, it's not they're. You know they're writing the perfect candidate but they're never going to find that.
Speaker 2:So you know it's like buying a house, right right like when you're on the market looking for a house. There's certain things you're going to have to concede on. You're not. Usually you're not going to get everything especially in jersey.
Speaker 1:What can you waver on? Yeah, exactly, conceding on several things. All right, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about one thing I do want to, can I just I wanted to say something about, like, when you're applying for that job that you you know may not be the perfect you know fit on paper for, or there's certain things that you're lacking. One piece of advice I I would like to offer the audience is you know you apply for that job, look for the hiring manager on LinkedIn, um, who is hiring for that job, or the recruiter that's owning that job, but I would say the hiring manager is going to be more effective and send them a message. This is a super effective way to gain the attention of you know the hiring team, um, and sell yourself.
Speaker 1:So that doesn't come off as sleazy in any way. That's a really a positive thing to do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I see it more and more and I can't tell you how many times I've had hiring managers reach out to me as the recruiter and say, hey, this person said they applied, they reached out to me and you know, I think they sound really motivated.
Speaker 1:You know I'd like to talk to them. Set up an interview. It's happened more like it's happened a lot. Excellent, oh, that's really good to know. So go ahead and have the chutzpah to reach out to those hiring managers through their social media account. I love that. Um, what are key changes a person should make to their resume and to their LinkedIn and their personal branding? I mean, obviously, we do know you want to tailor your resume to whatever job you're looking at, but what are things that you see that are common mistakes people make?
Speaker 2:Um, common mistakes like, let's say, if you're pivoting specifically you want. One thing that drives me crazy as the recruiter is when your LinkedIn doesn't match your resume and I'm not saying that, like, it has to be word for word, verbatim, because I see LinkedIn more as a marketing tool than really a way to, you know, apply for jobs per se or as a resume. Right, your resume is your resume, that's what you're applying to the job for. The LinkedIn is to sort of enhance and market yourself as to, like what you're good at, what you can do. But you do want to have job titles matching. You do want to have dates. Um, you know, in years of employment and all of that stuff, you want it to match.
Speaker 2:Um, a lot, of, a lot of times I'll look at a resume and be like, wow, this is really, really great. And then I go to LinkedIn and I'm like, wait, this doesn't add up. And then let's say, if the candidate does make it through, this is where sometimes they'll mess up on those background checks. And we've had folks we've rescinded offers from folks because of their lack of integrity, or they're trying to embellish or stretch out dates to fill in a gap of employment. Um, you know that is not something I recommend and I say, you know, be very careful with that Um. But you know, when trying to pivot and transition, I would say just try to highlight and have at the top of your bulleted list of skills the ones that are most applicable to the role you're applying for. You know, that would be my recommendation.
Speaker 1:But your other recommendation is really careful with the bullshit, careful with the hyperbole, oh yeah, because especially nowadays that can be found. We can find out that stuff. So present yourself who you are and try to. I mean, we all have to sell ourselves. We have to use hyperbole to some extent, but if you're lying on your resume it's going to get found, right, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is a perfect place for us to take a quick break, because when we come back, we are going to talk more about this, only from an angle that I'm pretty passionate about, and that is what happens when you're pivoting after the age of 50. Back in a second.
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Speaker 1:Don't I have the best voiceover artist for that ad?
Speaker 2:I was gonna say I recognize that I get a lot of compliments on that voice and people think I spent big money to hire that voice artist.
Speaker 1:Voiceover artist and I guess you could say I did, but um, all right, we're back, um, and now I want to get into a a little bit of a awkward, uncomfortable area, but it's really important. I did a whole show a few weeks ago on pivoting over 50 and ageism, and I want to get into this area of ageism, not to put you in an uncomfortable position. I know you need to be careful, but I want to see if you can give us some advice that might help. First, though, I want to set it up with some numbers that I gave in this episode I did a few weeks ago, because they are pretty startling, okay. So, according to ProPublica and the Urban Institute, more than half of the workers in this country who are over 50 are pushed out of employment, and only one in 10 of those are going to recover. Okay, 28% of stable, stable, long-time employees sustain at least one layoff between the age of 50 and retirement. 56% of that job loss is employer driven. Okay, so that 56% breaks down 28% from layoffs, 15% due to something called deteriorating conditions I still don't know what that means and 13% due to something called classified as unexpected retirement, which to me is just they got pushed out. Okay. Information from the US Census Bureau states that there are over 40 million workers in this country over the age of 50. And of those, it's predicted 22 million will likely suffer layoffs, forced retirement or involuntary separations from their jobs. And here's the really frightening thing Of that 22 million, it's predicted that only 2 million will recover.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to ask you the obvious question, which is why do we do this to people over 50,? Because it doesn't make any sense to me, especially now that we're living longer and healthier lives. 50 is often when people, I think, are at the height of their game. They're at the top of their game, but for some reason we have this arbitrary number of 50, and it is a reality. It's a real thing and it is, as Bill Maher said, the last acceptable prejudice ageism. So the one thing that we do have at 50, if we have to reinvent, is we got a lot of experience. We have extensive experience by that age, typically. So how is extensive experience like that viewed when transitioning to a new role or field, and what would you suggest a person does to highlight that in a positive way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is. It's a good question, it's definitely a tricky. It's a tricky subject because I would say that extensive experience is obviously can be held in high esteem, but then I think also hiring managers may feel threatened, right? Especially if they're potentially younger, right? So there, I think that's why sometimes this ageism exists. There's this fear that like, oh, what if they're better than me? What if they know more than me, right?
Speaker 1:Oh, I just got the truth finally came out right. That's a lot to do with it. And salary right. Your hiring manager thinks they're going to expect to be paid commensurate with their experience and that's not what we're looking to do. So what can you tell the applicant, the person over 50 who's applying? What can they do to put that hiring manager at ease, to put that that owner of that company or that that boss, that CEO, at ease? What can they do to get the message out that they're not necessarily looking for the salary that the people might? I mean you don't want to say I'm not looking for good pay, but how do you, how do you come across in a way that says, look, I'm going to be a team member?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think one thing that all candidates, no matter what the age is like, make sure you really understand the company, what their mission is, what their values are, and speak to that, whether it's in, you know, I don't. I don't really like cover letters. That's a whole other subject we haven't really talked about. But if you are going to submit a cover letter, you know you can speak to that, you know. Or if you're going to email the hiring manager or the recruiter or reach out to them on LinkedIn, like I'd mentioned before, like speak to those things you know. Here's why I want to join your organization, like I'm very pat, you know. Again, it comes down to that passion, that curiosity, um, that you know, not just looking for a competitive salary but looking for the opportunity looking for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:That's the key right there.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to pause you briefly. I want to back up cover letter. All right, let's not get into the whole reasons why you don't like cover letters. But if you don't have a cover letter, how do you communicate this? Is it that you're reaching out on social media and over email? I mean, if the cover letter is typically the place where your resume is, the place where you convey your skills and experience, the cover letter is the place where you get to convey your passion often, yeah.
Speaker 1:So if the cover letter is no longer effective. How do we do that? How do we get that across?
Speaker 2:I advise that you put a summary on the top of your resume, almost like what is your objective for applying for the job, and summarize it again succinctly there. You know why. You know whatever the company name is, why you know I'm interested in this role. I feel like I could be a value because of X, y and Z. You know and speak to not just the job that you're applying to, but also the overall, like core values and the mission of the company itself.
Speaker 1:What subtle thing can somebody say in that or in their interviews or whatever that will let the company know that they already understand that they're pivoting and that means they have to take a few steps back, like we talked about in the last episode, and that they are not expecting they be paid equally to what they were paid in their last role. They want to get their foot in the door and work really hard. What, how? How do we get that point across without saying those words?
Speaker 2:You know you could say, like I've seen on on resumes and in those like summaries and objectives, where it's like you know I have diverse experience, you know working as an IC, like an individual contributor, management and I'm a team player and willing to start I wouldn't say start at a basic level, but in some ways, you know, use some verbiage that talks about like willing to, to learn and you know, again, begin as like an individual contributor and, you know, look forward to growing within the team and the company. You know something along those lines also have had in my head but haven't mentioned in this podcast, is I love to use you may hate this I love to use AI and chat GPT to try to really get a good um way to convey my thoughts. Um, especially when it comes to writing, you know, formal, whether it's like resume or you know um a blurb or a summary, it's super helpful. So I, for the record.
Speaker 1:Don't hate it because I use it myself, but I don't like I use it. I used it for some of my questions, for this podcast in fact, and but I don't take. I don't take what it says verbatim. I take what it says as giving me a starting point for me to write everything in my own words, and that's that's what.
Speaker 1:I use. Oh my God, are you kidding? I mean, these are tools that now exist to make our lives. You know, I look at it as a thinking tool, right? I think a lot of. I know. I was just talking to a former professor of mine yesterday who's like you wouldn't believe the rash of papers I'm getting now that are just literally straight out of it. That's not what I'm talking about, but a thinking tool. Okay, are there any qualities or contributions that people you know make throughout their careers that employers particularly value more now in mature candidates? Are there any? That may be a stupid question. There may be no answer to that, but is there a way? I'm always looking to find ways that older people can stand out, because I'm an older person and I love older people yeah right no, I'm, I'm not far far from that either, matthew.
Speaker 2:So, um, I would say, uh, you know kind of how I look at, like, like folks that are consultants, um, you can kind of compare that to the folks that have been, you know, that are, uh, progressed in their career. They have a diverse skill like amount of diverse experience. They've been exposed to a lot of challenges and ebbs and flow in the market, in the job right, in changing technology, and they've, you know, been resilient through that right. They've been able to navigate those changes. But also, having that longevity in a career, you've picked up a lot of skills, hard skills, soft skills and you can use that to market yourself.
Speaker 2:But I guess one thing that I can see in a resume is longevity in a role. How long were you at a company and you took them from point A to point B? Like, what I always love to see in a resume is like the numbers right. So many companies are data driven right now and they specifically say, like every job description I feel like I help craft or that I read when I'm applying, is, like you know, data driven recruiter, or uses data and metrics to drive change or implement change or whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that jargon. But seeing the real numbers, um, you know, on the resume and being able to speak to that, like I made an impact that drove revenue from X you know, from um, from you know, uh, a to B or whatever the case may be, like that kind of stuff, I think really really does help show your impact right and the impact you've made in the roles that you've held.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Now what should you avoid when you're over 50 and you're applying for a job? What should you leave out? Like you know, I know I have one in mind that I want to mention about resumes, but before I say it what? What do you think people over 50 should avoid?
Speaker 2:Well, anybody, whether, no matter what your age, avoid anything personal, like nothing bothers me more on a resume. Somebody putting like I enjoy reading and hiking in my spare time, Like I always say like. Keep it professional, even when you're asked to do that elevator pitch. Do not mention anything personal. Oh my God, let me tell you.
Speaker 1:I had a rule when I was hiring people in my former career and I hired people all the time. If anybody in an interview said I'm a people person, they were done, I would not hire them. You know what I mean. I don't want to hear what kind of person you are, I want to see it. Do you know what? I mean, and so I agree with you on the personal side, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but as far as and what was the question? Again, how?
Speaker 1:I'm like what should?
Speaker 3:we avoid. What should people?
Speaker 2:avoid. So one tip I could say, like if you're worried about the ageism which definitely as we all, you know, your numbers proved it it exists in the workplace, is you can tailor your resume so that it doesn't project your age Right, um. So one piece of advice I give uh, you know, friends, candidates, whoever anybody like you know looking to make a change or revamping their resume is you really only need to provide your last 10 years of experience, not even like seven, I think. In my last company the background check went no longer than seven years, but I always say 10 years, right, 10 years past experience is what you really need to speak to on your resume. And then you can put a line in at the bottom to you know, to weed out, like how old you are, that says, like you know, prior experience available upon request.
Speaker 1:Right, that's perfect.
Speaker 2:Something along those lines where you're not giving away your age. You're not. You know that bias won't exist when the recruiter or the hiring manager is looking at your resume. And you don't need to put dates of when you graduated college, although some application systems may require it, but unless they do, you don't have to put that. If you earned a degree, just say, like earned a degree from this college and this was the degree, you don't have to put the years.
Speaker 1:And I wanted to bring that point up. That was my point for people? Um, because the age discrimination and employment act exists to protect people from ageism but it turns out that on average, at least over the last decade, only about two and a half percent of cases brought on that act have been seen to have cause. Because it's really easy to hide ageism and one of the ways is what are the dates of your degrees? So you graduate from high school in 1988, we know your age. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:And so.
Speaker 1:I always say take the dates off unless they specifically request them take the dates off. So I'm glad to hear you say the same thing. Um, if the only thing that bothers me about just the last 10 years is, if you have extensive 30 years of experience, you're not selling your. It seems to me like you're not selling yourself as well as you could, or are you?
Speaker 2:You can. Uh, well, that's where you can also write in your summary, you know, your sort of progression of experience, or at the end of the resume. There's a lot of ways to play around with this. If that's a concern that you have is you want to show that progression right and that hard work that you've done. You could say, like previous experience available upon upon requests, and you know would include, you know, um, whatever, though, those path roles, are, but in a very general way, I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and or, like I said, in your summer you could say, like you know, kicked off my career, as you know, I don't know, a project coordinator, blah blah, and then, like you know, through through the years, have you know, have progressed to, you know, a director of project management or you know a PMO, like head of PMO or something like that, you know.
Speaker 1:All right. So you know, I know it's. This is a tough topic because we all have to be careful. But I'm not a hiring person. I have my own small business and I talk about ageism because I see it all the time and it's terribly offensive to me because there's a hell of a lot of people I know in their 50s and 60s who are extraordinarily talented people and it seems like a lot of talent and expertise to be wasting. So I really hope that I'm gonna be pounding this drum for a long time. I hope we can find a way to make the last acceptable prejudice no longer acceptable. But that's enough of my pontificating for the day.
Speaker 1:I got one last question for you, jamie. Back to pivoting in general. A lot of people wanna pivot. They have a dream, they dream about it, they want to get out of the rut they're in or whatever, but they're, frankly, scared to do it. Now I've given some advice on how to go about this, but for those people that really aren't fulfilled in their lives and want to pivot but they're scared to pivot, do you have any thoughts for them?
Speaker 2:to pivot. Do you have any thoughts for them? I, I mean, that was me, and then I was kind of in that mode I know you talked about the three different types of pivots where, like I had to, I had to do it in order to maintain, you know, stability for my kids and the lifestyle that they were used to leading Um, so I was kind of forced into it. Otherwise, I think I probably would have just been afraid and not done it, um, frankly, you know, probably would have just been afraid and not done it, frankly, you know, and would have just like gone with what I knew. But it's always, you know, the fear of the unknown really is what I think prevents people from actually making that jump.
Speaker 2:But I would say, you know, and this is something I did talk to people reach out to you know, people that you know that are doing it, or even people that you don't know, like it's funny, you know people that you know that are doing it, or even people that you don't know, like it's funny, on LinkedIn, I'll get people that reach out to me about, you know, not getting a role at my company. They just want to pick my brain on, kind of like what we're talking about today, like what's a good, and you know, sometimes those connections can lead to bigger opportunities, you know. So I would say reach out to you know, either, and you can look at school, like if there's something specific you're looking into or you're passionate about that you want to pivot into, like look at programs online. Or you know local schools and whatnot, and talk to you know professors or folks over at those departments, like, what is it going to take? You know and I think, matthew, you could probably speak to this as far as what you did in your pivot, you know, getting that insight of, like, what is it going to take for me to do it? Like, do I have it in me to do it? Is it worth it? You know, and just gather that information and educate yourself as best you can about what that you know pivot will entail what the role entails, like what are the?
Speaker 2:You know, if you do have to go back to school, what are the courses you have to take, is that something you want to commit yourself to? Or you know, also, you need to keep in mind, like, am I willing to start over? Am I willing to potentially take a pay cut? You know to. Am I that passionate about it and am I that unhappy in my current career that that's something that I can justify?
Speaker 1:But what I'm trying to get at, though, is the fear that holds people back, because, yes, there are all those things. Looking at the I talked about this in my first episode in this series you know all the sort of things you got to go through in terms of what it's going to cost, what the financial ramifications are, do you need more training, what that's going to cost, but but really, in the end of the day, it's about the fear. I think for a lot of people and you know I'm going to say the obvious.
Speaker 1:You have one life, we have one life to live, you know. But you said something to me and when we were doing a pre-interview that I thought was pretty important for people that are thinking about pivoting don't wait, do it. Yeah, the earlier you do it the better, because as someone who pivoted in his 50s, I can tell you it's, it's a lot harder than had I done it in my 30s, you know.
Speaker 1:So if you just if you're unhappy, don't quit your job, but start doing the research. Listen to my podcast, get online there's plenty of books and and materials on this you can find with a simple Google search and just start looking through all the angles of pivoting. But don't be afraid to take the leap, because you get only one shot at this life right, and we often waste some of it. We all do, we're guilty of that. But if you really if it's in your heart, if you're hearing those messages that it's time to pivot, that doesn't mean you got to quit your job today. It just means that the universe is sending you a message and you need to start listening and looking and reading and researching and networking, as you said, and I love the idea that you say people who you don't even know will just reach out to you for advice and you're comfortable with that. You're cool with that, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I have the time. I don't necessarily it's not my first priority to get back to them, but I do try to because you know, especially in what I do, it's all about. You know, networking and you know, uh, getting word out there. Part of my role also is like blasting on on. So on LinkedIn, you know the open roles and the more connections I have on LinkedIn, the more that word is going to get out there and I'm going to be able to more easily find my perfect candidate, whether it's they directly, you know are connected to me, or somebody you know sends my post to that person because I'm connected to them. You know it's all about that.
Speaker 1:And keep the network. It's absolutely. I have a friend who pivoted in his early fifties. He's a business generalist and he was very successful, but he decided to pivot. He took 150 interviews and the only even hit he got of any interest was from a company that knew him. So you know, that's another reality that we we didn't talk a lot about in this show.
Speaker 1:But yeah a lot of times that it's not. It's not so um, it's not so sleazy that we sometimes think you can only get a job if you have a connection. It's just people stuff. We don't want to. We're, we're all afraid of strangers, period, End of story. And so you know, knowing people it isn't necessarily about having them do you a favor, it's about them being more comfortable with you.
Speaker 1:So knowing people, reaching out to people is good, all right. Well, these have been two great shows and got a lot of information from you. I can't thank you enough and, yes, we're going to have you back. We're definitely going to have you back to talk about a few other topics at some point, but thank you again, jamie. Really I appreciate you being on.
Speaker 2:No, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. Thanks again for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this. If you did, please hit that follow or subscribe button. Next week we're going to change topics. We've just done a long series on pivoting. Next week, we're going to do a couple quick shows on time management skills, something I'm sure we all can improve and something that's really important in terms of how we use our time effectively and efficiently. I've got some really good tips and tricks for you, so be sure to check it out. For now, be well, and I'll catch you next time on the Barrier Busting Podcast. Thank you.
