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Barrier Busting
The Barrier Busting podcast offers insights, strategies, and inspiring stories that explore practical tips and powerful tools for unlocking our full potential.
Barrier Busting
Decluttering: Transform Your Space and Mind
Unlock the secrets to a clutter-free life as I welcome back Sarah Hackenberg, founder of Grace in Cycles LLC. Sarah sheds light on how the clutter in our spaces can wreak havoc on our mental well-being and stress levels. Learn how organizing your environment isn't just about tossing things out but about creating an efficient, stress-free haven. Sarah shares her experiences and expert strategies that can transform your home into a peaceful refuge, highlighting the profound impact an organized space can have on your life.
Join us as we tackle common misconceptions around decluttering and organizing. Sarah and I explore how it's less about purging and more about accessing meaningful items with ease. Whether you're streamlining your home or boosting productivity in your business, we discuss how effective organizing systems can lead to significant efficiency gains. Sarah provides a fascinating glimpse into her client work, emphasizing the importance of trust and collaboration, while also teaching us how businesses can improve their operations with strategic organizing techniques.
Wrestling with sentimental clutter? You're not alone. We discuss practical strategies to face this challenge head-on by starting with non-sentimental items and gradually building your decluttering confidence. Sarah offers a compelling framework for evaluating what stays and what goes, encouraging couples to work together towards a shared goal. Dive into the benefits of decluttering, from reducing stress and enhancing focus to gaining a sense of peace and relief. Witness the life-changing transformation that comes with a clutter-free environment and discover the true satisfaction of shedding the unnecessary load from your life.
Are you feeling stuck, trapped by barriers holding you back from reaching your full potential? Well, let's bust through those barriers so that you can live your best life. Hi, I'm Matt Brooks, founder of Matt Brooks Coaching, and I'm passionate about helping people overcome barriers to achieve success. Join me for insights, strategies and inspiring stories as we explore practical tips and powerful tools to unlock your true potential. This is the Barrier Busting Podcast. Well, all right, welcome everybody. This is Matt Brooks. Welcome back to the Barrier Busting Podcast.
Speaker 1:Last week, I was talking about decluttering the mind, right? Which boy? We all need that at various levels. But freeing up some space in our mind, and why? To create less stress in our life, right, that's the main reason. And then one of the main things that I talked about that comes out in all the advice about decluttering your mind is decluttering your stuff, decluttering your space, decluttering your workspace, your home space, decluttering your space. Decluttering your workspace, your home space.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how much of a subconscious effect that has on you when your space is, you know, a mess, or not even a mess, but just disorganized, and we all have an attic or a garage that's overfilled with junk that's not moved in years, and I told the story last week about a pile of magazines that was on my living room floor for forever. They were my wives and there was this face on the cover of the top magazine that I was staring at for four years. And so I got rid of this pile because my rule is, if it hasn't been touched or moved in four years, it's got to go right. So I promised that we were going to have today a professional organizer on so that we can talk. Yes, that's a thing. By the way, a professional organizer is people that actually make a living organizing your shit. Isn't that amazing? So I've got somebody on today who's going to help talk, who's going to talk to us about decluttering your stuff. She has been on the show before. We did an episode together on career pivoting because she spent 20 years as a library science person teaching in the public schools and then she left that to start her own business as a professional organizer.
Speaker 1:My guest today is Sarah Hackenberg, who left teaching careers I said as a school librarian after 20 years to pursue operating her own business as a professional organizer, opening Grace in Cycles LLC. To help people organize their past, present and future. Sarah offers an empathetic and efficient approach to optimizing her clients space and time her clients space and time. She is a member of the National Association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals and the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. I love that. That's my favorite the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. You can find out more about her and her business by visiting her website, which is wwwgraceincyclescom. Sarah, welcome back to the Barrier Busting Podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Good to have good to be back, Matt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great to see you again. We're actually recording this on Christmas Eve, so Merry Christmas to you or Happy Holidays or whatever you celebrate. So, yeah, I did an episode and it hasn't aired yet on Decluttering your Mind and the challenges and how much gets in in there and what that does to us and, in particular, to create stress, and what I do as a life coach a lot of it is to minimize stress, because stress has such a negative effect on everything, including our physical being. So I'm all about that. So you are a professional organizer. Tell us what it is you do. Give us some info about your business.
Speaker 2:So, like you said in the intro, I like to think of it as organizing, and the past affects the present. If you get present, organized and running smoothly, that affects your future. Those things all go together and you're right Clutter can be a humongous weight and drain on a person and a household a household and so it is a very gratifying industry that I'm working on, because you do get to see up close and personal the effect you have on people's lives when you help them declutter or make sense of their space, optimize their space.
Speaker 1:You know, I did an episode early on in this series on habits and I talked about a night when I was around 29, 30 years old, where I came home after a very long day and had to drive through a blizzard over mountains and what should have taken an hour and a half took three and a half hours and I was white knuckled and incredibly stressed and I walked into my apartment and it was a disaster area and I sat down to try to come down off of this stressful drive and I couldn't relax and I looked around and I said this is ridiculous. My home needs to be a refuge, not a place that causes more stress. So I put on a pot of coffee and I pulled an all-nighter. I told this story in this episode and I organized everything and what it did was. It made me become very quickly addicted to being organized, to having my poop in a group, because what I noticed very quickly was how much more efficient I was at my job, how much more efficient I was at everything, and so I got very into that.
Speaker 1:I quickly created habits where if I'm making a sandwich, I'm putting the food away before I eat the sandwich. If I'm done eating, I'm going to put those dishes right in the dishwasher, you know, et cetera, and keep everything organized in a place, because what's that old phrase? You know, everything has a place, a place for everything. I finally grew up and did that, you know, and what it did for my life in terms of a change for my life. So I think this is really great that you're here to talk about this, because this could really make a difference for everybody. Okay, give us your overall philosophy on decluttering.
Speaker 2:Well, sort of to your point, I would say that while clutter in general there are studies that show it does cause stress, the amount of clutter or the amount of organization that works for you, it is very individual. And so you want to pay attention to that and just remember that it's not the organizing that works for you. Matt works for everyone. Or what you see on Instagram is the answer you know, for everyone.
Speaker 1:As I learned in my marriage, we both have different perceptions about that and we've learned to. You know, I have my spaces, she has hers, and yeah, no exactly.
Speaker 2:Yep, and the other thing I would say is that you know it's it's important to look at someone's clutter and not judge that. So again, grace being so important to my philosophy, there are a lot of reasons that clutter accumulates, and it does not mean that person is messy, that person is lazy. There are all sorts of reasons, you know, why we end up not paying attention to the things that maybe aren't optimizing our space and causing a stress.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, in my case it wasn't that I was lazy, I was working like crazy, but I was really getting eaten alive by stress, and what I noticed was when I got my stuff uncluttered, it created an atmosphere where my home was a refuge, so I could come down after stressful days, which helped me to recharge, to go back into the lion's den the next day. You know what I mean, and so for me it wasn't about. It's not about being judgmental, it wasn't about being lazy, it was just like I was in such a crazy job that I didn't have time I thought to continue to keep myself organized. But once I figured out a way to do it in a system and it took years to practice this before I got great at it, but once I did, I noticed it had a tremendous effect on me, right, and so I'm not trying to suggest people are lazy either, so I'm grateful you brought that up. Any more to your philosophy, or should I move on?
Speaker 2:No, I think you know grace and just understanding that you want your space to be the refuge that you pointed out and it will just have ripple effects throughout your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what are like? You meet people who want to work with you, or think they want to work with you, or aren't sure, but no, they need. They need to do something. What are the most common misconceptions that people have about organizing and decluttering their stuff?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's definitely the initial worry that I'm going to make them get rid of all their stuff. You know, decluttering does involve getting rid of some stuff, but it's not a now. Everyone must live, as Marie Kondo images suggest, with a minimum of things. So, you know, worry that it's just I have to get rid of everything and that's not the case at all. It's really about optimizing your access to what you do have and making sure that what you have is meaningful to you, not just piles of things that you're sort of ignoring and I so appreciate the optimizing your ability to get to things, because that was a big part of the problem for me.
Speaker 1:I lived in a small space and often when I would need something, I'd have to pull six things out to get to it and boy, how frustrating. That is right. And so at some point you kind of go, oh screw it, I'm just not going to bother, and then that creates stress, right. So, all right, let me ask you about your approach here. You get a call from a client and before they hire you, what's the discussion like? What is it that you say to them? And then, when they hire you, what is it you do? How do you start? Where is it you know? Do you work with them? Do you just go in and plow through their stuff without them there? I mean, give me an idea of the whole, the whole approach and experience.
Speaker 2:Sure. So there's always a phone call to start off. Not only does that help me get a sense of what the client's looking for, but it's also important that the client gets to get a sense of me and what my style is and make sure they're comfortable with me, because having someone come into your home is so personal. You do need to have a little bit of comfort and trust in that person. And that starts with the phone call conversation and between the phone call and then the initial visit, the most important thing is for me to understand the person's lifestyle and goal. Why do they want to declutter? And it can't? While stress is very valid, the goal I try to drill down on getting the goal as specific as possible, because those specifics not only help me in guiding the parameters of the job but also help keep the client motivated.
Speaker 1:That's the same. It's exactly the same in life coaching, you know. Someone says I want to do X, why do you want to do X? And it takes a while to drill down the real why. There's a sort of surface why? Right, but the surface why? Isn't enough to keep them motivated to do the work. It's going deeper and so we're doing a similar thing there. I want to, before you move on with this discussion, go back to this trust thing. Who are you going to trust to organize your stuff more than a library scientist, somebody who spent their lives as a librarian? If they can't organize it, who can? Right, I've just had to throw that in. But anyways, back to your approach. Okay, so you've talked to them and they've established some trust and they decide okay, we're going to pull the trigger on this and hire you and go forth. What do you do? How do you? How do you go about this?
Speaker 2:So I do offer different services. Some people are hiring me in part because they do not have the time to organize their clutter and they really do want me to work independently, following the guidelines that we've talked about. And when that is the case and the independent project there's always a lot of communication, but it really is me just going in to a space and starting the sort starting to consolidate and then asking questions about well, we've got this category of things I think you know. Are you ready to get rid of all of them? Does that not suit you? Maybe we can move it to another space.
Speaker 2:Then there are people who want to work with me, do a paired project, and that you know the advantage to that. Of course, it's still what is your goal and let's hold on to that. But when we're working together, there's really more of a transference of skills. So they're starting to take away a lot of the mindsets and the ideas that can turn into habits that make it easier for them, moving forward, to take those skills and use them on another project in their house on their own, maintain those organizing systems moving forward. So it always comes back to the goal, though.
Speaker 1:So you're teaching as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I imagine people don't just hire you to clean up their attic. They might hire you to help them learn, uh uh, an efficient um filing system right.
Speaker 2:Yes, so um it. I have worked with businesses and nonprofits. Um, you know, it's interesting. I do focus so much on the residential and the people who need the relief of the stress, need to feel that their home is a refuge, and that's so gratifying to me, that kind of work. But I do work with businesses and in a business case they're looking to save money. But I do work with businesses and in a business case they're looking to save money. You know they understand that if we can access our files quicker, that's saving us money, that's productivity and that that's that's money saved. They're looking to make sure that their supply closet is organized so that they're not buying more staplers when they already have seven staplers. They just can't find the staplers. So absolutely on that end.
Speaker 1:But I imagine people need files. I mean, I have a filing system at home. There's a lot of papers, there's, you know, stuff from my mom who's in a nursing home, there's my stuff, my taxes, all kinds of information that has to be filed. Boy it's. It's a constant, um, kind of experimentation on my part to get it to be perfectly efficient. Right, do you help people, individuals, with that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, because you're right. I think it's very easy to end up with just boxes and boxes of papers and no real sense of if all the papers in that box are even worth keeping, let alone. I think these are all something I should have access to, but I'm never going to be able to find the important stuff when I need it, the important stuff when I need it. And you know, the challenge, especially with paper filing, is it takes a lot of time. That just takes time, but when you get to the end of it, it's extremely worthwhile knowing that you will be able to put your hands on some paperwork for an elderly parent who you're helping out with, or your taxes at the end of the year. I mean, that's a uh. That really is life changing, and that is then so much easier to maintain moving forward once the filing system set up for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, let's move on a little more practical advice here. Um, we want to give some tips to people, right? I know you don't want to give away the store because you want to be hired by them, but let's give them some tips, right? Where should someone start? If they're feeling overwhelmed by clutter, they decide I've got to do something about it, but oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed. Where should they start?
Speaker 2:And let me just backtrack a minute and say you know, I have no problem at all talking very specifically about what I do. In fact, one of the other services I offer is a DIY service, so it's a two-hour package where a person I spend an hour with the person in their space and then I spend an hour devising a very detailed plan that includes every single thing that I would do in their case, and they're free to take that plan and move forward with it, because I am an educator and so it's not. I'm not a gatekeeper. I'm not at all intending to make people think that they can't do this on their own. I want to empower people. In an ideal world, they hire me once for a job and the job sometimes jobs take six months, sometimes that are one week, but at the end of that job, they do feel empowered to move forward on their own. That's that is important to me.
Speaker 2:So and think about it you know there's so many tips and articles online about how to declutter, so it's not the information so much. It is sometimes, though, very beneficial to have a person who's not connected with your possessions to help you get over the initial start and sometimes just wade through the mountain of your possession. So I just wanted to put that out there.
Speaker 2:The other thing I will say in relation to people feeling overwhelmed there is a fabulous book the author is Casey Davis and the book is called how to Keep House While Drowning. It speaks so specifically to the person who is just sits down at the end of every day and looks around at their house and just sort of wants to cry because they are stressed in their life. They're looking around, they know there's so many things that they should be doing in their house and they just can't. They just can't. So I highly recommend it. And one thing she says is start with one thing and if you're overwhelmed, I'm literally going to tell you look around and decide. You know what? I could pick up all the dirty napkins and tissues and trash in my house and I'm just going to do that and that's all I'm going to do today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, start small, right, start small.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's start small. Let's start small and let's start very specifically, like just taking the trash, these dirty napkins and things off the floor. That's one layer. That then your brain is not overwhelmed by or dirty laundry. You know you've got you've got kids running through the house and they take off their T-shirt and their socks and you know they're just sprinkled everywhere. So fine, you know your one task today is just go through, pick up all that dirty laundry and bonus, if you have the energy, to throw it in the wash and set a timer so that when it's done you throw it in the dryer.
Speaker 1:You know I did an episode on New Year's resolutions. Why they fail? Cause only 9% of people who make New Year's resolutions actually succeed at them. I've done episodes on habits. It all comes down to a similar thing Start small, Just do a little bit here. A little bit, it will accrue over time. You'll be amazed how much that accrues just like an investment, you know. So that's great. Okay, here's the thing. I have a it's not, I'm just putting a hypothetical out there. I have a bunch of stuff that's still in reasonably good condition, All right Clothes, electronics, furniture, et cetera. But I just do not want to be bothered with all that would go into selling or donating them. What a pain in the ass to me. My wife loves doing that stuff, but I can't stand it Right, so my inclination is just to throw it all in the trash. All right.
Speaker 2:What do you have to say to people like me? Hit me so I will tell you. This is another reason to hire a professional organizer, because we take away that stuff and deal with it for you. So, if you know, so part of what I do is, at the end of every session, I take up to a carload away with me, and it's things that need recycled, it's things that need to go to a donation center, things that no longer work for the person in their space. And look, I could leave you a pile of things to recycle and a pile of things to take to the donation center, but that's its own burden, and so that's a significant service, that a professional organizer. It's pretty common that organizers will do that, but it's something that I do. And, yeah, you don't have to deal with that Now. If you want to sell it, I don't do that.
Speaker 2:There are some organizers who will actually sell items for you. I will try to connect you. If you have certain collectibles or certain things where a specialist would be helpful, I'll try to make connections or set up a space for you. I did this for one client where she loved to buy old furniture, refurbish it a little bit and then flip it, but it had become overwhelming for her. It was a hobby. She used to love it, but it was just turning into a pile of junk that she couldn't really. Her brain no longer accessed its creative energy, and so one thing I did for her was I set up a space in her house that would always be used as a staging area, so once she finished a piece, she had a place to put it, take photos, leave it there until it sold and then move in another piece. So that's the sort of thing I can do if you're interested in selling things.
Speaker 1:Well, but so worth it if you're going to take things to recycling for me and then I don't have to deal with the guilt that I threw this thing out. Oh, that's so worth it. All right. Well, this is great. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back we've got a lot more to talk about here, so hang tight with Sarah Hackenberg and me.
Speaker 3:Feeling overwhelmed, Struggling to find balance in your daily life? At Matt Brooks Coaching, we get it and we can help. With over 25 years of nonprofit executive experience and an MSW with a clinical focus, Matt Brooks offers personalized coaching designed to help you rise above your challenges and live your best life. Whether you aim to advance your career, enhance your skills or simply find more clarity and peace, Matt is here to be your partner and ally. Visit mattbrookscoachingcom to book your free discovery session today. Take the first step towards a brighter tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, this show is definitely running along people and we're going to let it because this is great stuff. I'm loving this stuff, all right, so let's go a bit deeper into this because, as you talked a bit about layers of stuff and working through your layers, I think there's layers in our heads that we got to go through too. I imagine that people sometimes have real issues with decluttering. I mean partying with things, especially sentimental items. I imagine it's really tough for people. It's you know some people. I mean I can. I'm pretty good at saying yeah, it was sentimental to me once. I can let it go now, but not everybody can do that. So what are the most common challenges or resistance points people face during decluttering and how do you help them overcome that?
Speaker 2:You're so right that it does not come easy to a lot of people, and in fact that's sort of the point. You have to practice it. It's sort of like a muscle you have to start off with, you know, five pound weights and then build.
Speaker 1:It's a muscle you got to practice. I like that Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so and if you're going to practice, you're going to need to start with things that are easy. So you know cleaning supplies you just have a ton of them everywhere and you usually end up with duplicates and things that are expired or empty. You know that's an easy place to start expired food in your pantry.
Speaker 2:You know that's there's not a lot sentimental there and the expiration date is sort of a fact and it's easier to deal with that kind of thing, you sort of build up, um, and then, as you get into things, like you know, books, uh books aren't necessarily the most sentimental things, but a lot of times there's attachment to them, or clothes, uh things that you're still just not sure about hanging on to. So then I have a framework and you want to think about four things. You want to think do I love it? Do I need it? The 2020 method could I easily replace it? You know, in 20 minutes, for 20 bucks, could I replace it if I ever need it? All those are, you know, yes or no's. And then finally, this is the biggie, if this thing was covered in mold, would you put the effort into cleaning it so you could keep it? Is it that important?
Speaker 1:I like that. I'm going to borrow that, if you don't mind. I know somebody Absolutely.
Speaker 2:If it's colored mold.
Speaker 1:would you clean it? I see, yeah. So kind of like silver that you've let set for a long time needs to be really worked. You got to really clean that up and that takes some work. If that's worth it to you, then fine, otherwise ditch it right.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah yep.
Speaker 1:So, when somebody's got to declutter sentimental items, you know and there are times where we need to let some stuff go how do you handle it? What's your advice? What do you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know, we've been practicing, we've been strengthening those muscles working up to this. But you get to the point where it's the hard stuff and the first thing to do is sort of gather, like all the photographs that you have or all the old VHS tapes you have, and just think about the quantity that you have. Sometimes looking at the quantity is a helpful point. It also allows you to think. You know, can I truly access and enjoy this right now, in this state? Whether it's boxes of photos or you know, just dozens and dozens of VHS tapes.
Speaker 2:Even if you have a VHS player, still you will never be able to watch all of them and start to consider that. And so then, how can we take the most important memories, the most important sentimental items and turn them into a collection that you really can enjoy? Sometimes that's enough to allow someone to let go of. I have a client who loves anything related with tea and tea cups and she used to give tea parties and she just kept accumulating these things and it's still very, very important to her and she would like to get back to doing that again. But as we gather all of the materials she has, she's recognizing that she will never be able to use all of them and so going to be able to weed out some of them and pass them on. The other thing is that, while I don't personally digitize photos or things like that, I do have connections sometimes discounts, because of my national organizations I'm part of that I can connect clients to to help them digitize their VHS.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you, I used to have about three to 4,000 CDs and when they came out, when iTunes match came out, where you could just load them onto your computer, oh my God, it took me a long time to load those on. I would you know, I'd do it at my office every day. I would do a few a day again, little by little, but it accrued and eventually they were all. Now they're all on my phone, they're all in a cloud somewhere and it cost me $25 a year to keep them there. And then I gave them all away to someone who loves music. But what a relief, because I used to move a lot and every time I moved I had to pack those CDs into multiple file boxes. And I don't have to deal with that anymore. It's so awesome. Let me ask you now about you're decluttering and there's a married couple and they're disagreeing on what to get rid of and what to keep. What do you do then? Do you just run for the hills and say I'll be back when you figure it out, or what?
Speaker 2:Right, my degree is not in therapy and this is, you know, beyond me. So I would say there are three things when people are disagreeing about what to let go of. The first is that you need to have agreed on your major goal. You know why are you decluttering, so trying to make sure that you are in step with the overall goal. You know it can't be well, my goal is that you get rid of half of your clothes, or you get half your rid of all of your you know, car parts or whatever.
Speaker 2:The second thing is to start to again flex your muscles together and work on low hanging fruit. You know what can you agree on together to declutter. So those two things help get you in sync. And then the third step is look, sometimes there is a maybe pile, one person just not ready to get rid of X yet, and that's fine, you've already made some accomplishments together. So then you have to agree all right, this maybe pile pile we are going to set aside in the attic, in the spare room, for six months and we're going to come back to it in six months and reassess has it been used? How are you feeling about it now? Sometimes time is very informative to making these decisions.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I like the idea of this flexing the muscle thing because you start small. You can, over time, start with the things you agree on. You start to notice the effect it's having on you, that it's having a really positive effect. In my case it became an addiction. I became addicted to it. I wanted everything out of my life that was weighing me down and it really oh my God, it really made a difference to me. But you're right, we're all different. But I like this idea of starting with the low hanging fruit, starting with things you can agree on. But if you're going to declutter a lot, so you got a lot. You just let it all build up over the years. It's going to take a long period of time, especially if you're doing it layer by layer. How do you maintain motivation? Or how do I know you maintain motivation because it's what you're doing for a living? But how do other people maintain that motivation six months later when they're still in the process of decluttering?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely, which is why it is so critical to have a very specific goal that you're working towards. But even that, you know it's tiring. It's tiring physically, it's tiring emotionally to just keep letting go of more and more stuff. So, to your point, you want to maintain small steps, you want to maintain that progress, even if it is just little by little. I often tell people to set a time limit or a task goal.
Speaker 2:So, for example, I have a client who has more clothes than they have space to store, but they also love clothes, and so it's a project to go through them. And so it's it's a project to go through them, and so the it's some days. Well, I have, there were clothes in storage. So I have three today, three bags of clothes that I'm going to go through. And here I am sitting you know, note to the note to self always sit it getting ready for this process, with a bag for donations and a bag for trash or, you know, soiled clothing, so that you are ready, you just ready to pack it away. So, but that's it.
Speaker 2:Once you are done with the three bags of clothes, you're done for the day You're walking away. Or once you've done it, for 45 minutes. The timer goes off, walk away and set rewards. You know yourself at the end of that time. Oh, you know what I'm going to do right now. What? What is your reward? Maybe it's I am going to now sit and watch 20 minutes of my favorite show and then go about my day. I love to suggest to families, as they are trying to not only declutter their home for the adults, but also teach kids, that this is an important skill. I love to teach families that, hey, you know what on Saturdays in the morning, say, we are all going to spend 20 minutes in our bedroom and we are going to pick up everything off the floor and put it in its place and at the end of that 20 minutes we're going to go do a family activity for that reward, building in that habit.
Speaker 1:I like it. And yeah, if you're going to build new habits and I did several shows on this you got to create rewards. You have to. It's part of the habit loop, what's called the habit loop, but all right. Well, let's talk about quickly, about how I know this is not a quick thing, but let's just kind of touch on it. How does clutter affect mental health and productivity from your perspective? From my perspective, it affects mental health and productivity dramatically. But what do you see from your perspective?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, I mean, you did talk about it at the beginning of this episode and you're so right, and there are. There are studies that show that, um, you know, an excess of things affects people's mental health. It causes stress, it reduces the ability to focus, uh, which is so huge for?
Speaker 1:all of us that's a big one is the the distracting elements to this. It's especially your workspace. If your workspace is cluttered, boy, you're not going to be able to focus in the way you think you are.
Speaker 2:I have had some people comment that, oh, their house is cluttered but it doesn't bother them and it's fine and they're productive, and this is just what works for me, and that is again. We'll say that is true. You know, different brain types. Were are able to ignore certain things or enjoy having seeing all of their creative products, artistic products, whatever, in front of them. That helps their creative process is, if your clutter is starting to affect things like the livability of your home, if it's starting to affect your relationships, if it's starting to cause you some emotional stress, paying attention to that and is it causing, yes, the inability to focus? Sometimes even there's a financial burden that can come with being overly cluttered. So, while you think this is working for you, great, but just do pay attention to those things. Yeah, I'll stop there and let you.
Speaker 1:Ok, I know no no, I think that's you know. I think, look, and you're right, different strokes for different folks. But I do think that it's pretty proven that too much clutter is going to cause you stress in one way or another. It just is. And so it really does help to have your poop in a group, as I like to say. Let's just talk really quickly about you. Know, what have you observed in clients that have been successful? What's the most satisfying transformation you've witnessed as a professional organizer?
Speaker 2:You know, I would say they fall into two categories. And the first is I have watched someone this is in an independent project, so they hadn't been working with me so they come into their bedroom, which was no longer cluttered, and I just watched the weight fall off their shoulder and peace descend. I mean, it is so dramatic and for them to just give a huge, huge sigh of relief, almost in disbelief, that this is now there's space, right, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's got to be satisfying for you too, right yeah?
Speaker 2:So satisfying. I mean it makes me feel like you say, we've both transitioned relatively recently into new careers and it is makes me feel very good about the career, the new career that I've chosen, so gratifying to be able to help someone that way. And the second category is watching someone's creative energy return.
Speaker 2:You know they have been surrounded by these piles that they have started to just ignore because that's the way they're surviving. And when those piles are no longer there and they're able to look at their space and just watch their brain suddenly think, ooh, wow, now I can once again do this craft that I've wanted to. Or, oh wait, now I can rearrange my furniture or I'm going to be able to do this new thing in this space, and them get so excited and pumped about the possibilities again that their space offers them. That's also just really, really gratifying.
Speaker 1:What a great point that it opens up your creativity again. That's, that's. Oh yeah, it has a lot of benefits. All right, we're just about done. I got one last question for you. What's your favorite decluttering story?
Speaker 2:So while these other things are so gratifying, I will just take the spotlight for a second and say the best decluttering story I have still is my own, because I took a four bedroom house that I was living in with my then husband and our goal was that we wanted to travel and we had decided we were going to travel for a length of time. So, with that goal in mind, I decluttered and got rid of everything in that four bedroom house and whittled it down to only the necessities we were going to need for a year long trip in a camper.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And did not just put everything in several storage units. I actually truly got rid of all of it. And again to just put everything in several storage units, I actually truly got rid of all of it. And again to the point that it's all about the goal. It allowed us to do what we wanted, which was just sort of travel freely for a year.
Speaker 1:It allowed you to do what you wanted. That's the phrase I want people to remember. Yeah, no, this is great and this is such great advice for all of us. I think you're right. Everybody's different. Some people can deal with clutter better than others, but a little bit of decluttering is not a bad idea for anybody. And we're just into the new year.
Speaker 1:Now it's a good time not only to be thinking about New Year's resolutions, but also, you know, getting your freeing up some space in your life, in your mind, in your physical spaces. It can make a lot of difference, and I'm just gonna I'm not a professional organizer, but I'm gonna reiterate my rule. I know there's a lot of rules or rules of thumb in professional organizing. Like we talked about the 2020 rule. There's other rules, but I'm gonna just I think my rule's the best If it hasn't been touched or moved in four years, ditch it Right, Unless it's like a picture of your mother or something. That's not what I'm talking about, but you know, like in my closet, every once a year, I go through my closet and I'm like have I worn this in four years? No, it's gone. It's got to be gone. So, Sarah Hackenberg, you are the best. Thank you so much for coming back on and good luck with your business.
Speaker 2:Thank you Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, this is great. What a cool business you chose. I really risky, Thank you.
Speaker 2:I think so too.
Speaker 1:Any business like mine is risky too. You know anything you're going into, but it's really cool and there's national organizations and everything. I mean it's pretty impressive and not a lot of people know about it. So, sarah Hackenberg, thank you for being with us. Everyone else, thanks for tuning in and listening again. If you enjoyed this, please hit that like or subscribe button so you'll know when I'm dropping new episodes, and I've been putting this out there lately. If you have an idea for a topic you'd like me to cover on the show, shoot me an email, matt at mattbrookscoachingcom. Just shoot me an email. Tell me what it is. If it's something I can pull off, I will happily do that, and I'd love to get your ideas and your feedback. So feel free to write me, matt at mattbrookscoaching. That's it for now. Be well, we'll catch you next time on the Barrier Busting Podcast. Thank you.
